quality, commissioners, and more, oh my

[InquisitiveScouter]

1 hour ago, Eagledad said:

However, I believe they would have been fine if they had been willing to delegate skills they lacked to others.

As you point out, many now have no outdoors/Scouting experience... so to whom are they to delegate?

[Eagledad]

10 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

As you point out, many now have no outdoors/Scouting experience... so to whom are they to delegate?

Yes, my delegating comment was for the program 25 or 30 years ago when there were still many experienced Scouters. My point about the adults in today's scouts program is a different situation. I'm pretty creative when looking for solutions, but this one is a challenge.

The program now, whatever it's called (part of the problem), needs big changes in identity and training.

Barry

[Jameson76]

13 hours ago, fred8033 said:

The program would do better if it focused more on getting the scouts outside and being active.  Worry less about leadership and character.  Instead, focus on being active.  Then, leadership and character comes as a result of being active.

And there in lies the problem.  Get out and do.  Way to much focus on classroom merit badges, class instruction, checking boxes, adult leaders preventing experiential learning.  How many times have we seen discussions on how to game the system so a Scout can get 20 nights camping?  The goal should be to go out and do things, not just meet a metric.  20 nights should be simple to attain, and the Scout will learn volumes along the way.

We were looking at what an AOL needs to do in order to earn arrow of light now, apparently camp with a BSA troop is no longer a thing, visit yes, but they can camp with their patrol. But, looking at the "Adventures" the first multiple pages is about safety considerations;

• food allergies
• anaphylaxis and epi-pens,
• behavior around campfires,
• etc etc etc. 

No doubt all good things, but this "safety moment" (and it's more than a moment) is front and center for every Adventure.  

Safety is important, but that cannot be our reason for being.  To a parent new to the program, is this the right "Go to Market" thinking?  Then they move into a BSA Troop, and "GASP!!!", the youth do stuff on their own!!.

Scouts is OUTSIDE and doing stuff.  The leadership training should be a less formal item and more something they experience and grow from.  They will screw up, we as adult leaders can assist in making the course correction. 

The simplicity of the Troop program is that a 12 year old whom ignores advice and input and gets wet when their tent leaks or sleeps cold when they did not bring the recommended gear LEARNS A LESSON from THEIR actions.  They hopefully realize they need to do better.  Later, maybe as they go off to college or first job, they can recall that all advice is not bad.  They can help themselves be better.

[BetterWithCheddar]

On 11/16/2024 at 7:24 PM, Eagledad said:

BUT, to be fair, most bad leaders are parents with average skills. The Cub program is over burdened and overly complicated for parents with average skills. The training and professional support doesn’t supplement these parents enough to bring their skills up to lead a quality program.

Respectfully, I feel like that enough parents with average skills could still put on a good program. The biggest problems occur when a small number of average leaders are over-burdened by a high number of drop-off parents and/or poorly behaved kids.

 

On 11/17/2024 at 1:03 PM, InquisitiveScouter said:

Somehow we need to cultivate a culture of the Pursuit of Excellence.

I would settle for a culture of Very Good. If you have enough leaders/parents willing to take kids outside or plan a fun unit meeting, there is a good chance that your program can be sustained.

[SSScout]

Is it "Good Enough" ?   Worksheets for Merit Badges....  Texting LOL,  LMAO,   letters not written, knots that don't hold,  "like",  "hacks" that have nothing to do with axes or hatchets or cheap taxis or lousy attorneys,,, 

Believe what I say despite what  you see,  "You mean I CAN make that decision?",   "What if everybody acted like that, eh?"   Well, I was only joking, I didn't really MEAN that, it's just a manner of speaking, it's what everybody says....  History is what we agree on, not what  we have proof of....  Oh, I'll never use that silly knot...  

"Oh, I have people to take care of that."   We can pay for that , no need to do it ourselves.   It's easier to use paper plates and plastic stuff.... 

Well, the other Merit Badge Counselor let me...    "Was THAT good enough?"   Can't we get an extension for my boy? He's only late by a few days.... 

I can't take off work for this, isn't there someone else that can lead this hike/meeting/training/show and sell?  What are we paying these dues for, anyway?   

I want my kid to be a Scout, it will get him a higher rating when he joins the military/applies for college/trains for the Olympics/fills out the application for (fill in the blank)....   

[Eagledad]

6 hours ago, BetterWithCheddar said:

Respectfully, I feel like that enough parents with average skills could still put on a good program. The biggest problems occur when a small number of average leaders are over-burdened by a high number of drop-off parents and/or poorly behaved kids.

 

I understand what you are saying, but my experience with adults is that less is more. Adults tend to hinder the scouts' growth in character because, by their nature, adults don't like youth making bad decisions. 

I'm not sure what you consider average skills. Are knots, lashings, and orienteering average skills you're speaking about?

Still, the troop program is designed so that scouts lead and manage their activities. That program doesn't require many adults. 

Of course, scouts have to continually grow to develop the skills for dealing with the responsibilities of running the program and their personal growth.

A mature program requires a minimum number of adults because the scouts are responsible for the program's activities and business, including training.

The challenge for units is having a resource pool of skilled experts to prevent stumping scout growth. 

Barry

[SiouxRanger]

6 hours ago, BetterWithCheddar said:

I would settle for a culture of Very Good.

 

2 hours ago, SSScout said:

Is it "Good Enough" ? 

 

2 hours ago, SSScout said:

Oh, I'll never use that silly knot...

“A knot is never “nearly right”; it is either exactly right or it is hopelessly wrong, one or the other; there is nothing in between. This is not the impossibly high standard of the idealist, it is a mere fact for the realist to face.” – Clifford Ashley, author Ashley Book of Knots