https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2024/06/04/what-is-the-scouting-edge-here-are-some-key-findings-from-the-latest-research/?

[skeptic]

A great survey, but sadly, not necessarily accurate.  Like most such things, the data is skewed to the desired outcome.  I agree, as most likely recognize, that I Think Scouting can be America's answer still, but this study does not reflect my own community experiences.  While bystanders at service events tend to be positive towards our youth and the group, they are usually not representative of the larger public.  The negative image created by the overblown media attacks have done serious damage, and unless we find ways to prove otherwise, and also help people realize that the bad things the media pushed IS NOT the norm, nor ever was.  But that damage is done, and so the challenge is greater.  

The comments here about parents still talking to their kids about right and wrong I fear is far from accurate.  Based on both Scouting interactions and years of subbingin schools, I do not see that.  And, too often when talking to adults when their scout, or a student was needing "counseling", I have seen the attitude of "not my child.  They were not taught to act that way, and other similar words.  

Still, the study is a small light.  Now we need to find a way to spread that beam.  

[AltadenaCraig]

8 hours ago, skeptic said:

Still, the study is a small light.  Now we need to find a way to spread that beam.  

To me, the light is found on p. 20 of the report, near the bottom.  That's where they list "Even non-Scouts agree! Scouting has a positive impact on its members".  Specifically these two bullets:

• 91% of non-alumni adults and 83% of non-Scout youth agree that Scouting helps character development

.... and...

• 81% of non-alumni adults and 82% of non-Scout youth agree that Scouting had a positive impact on its members’ leadership abilities.

Just think, in spite of all we've been through, over 9 out of 10 non-alumni adults still agree our movement helps character development.  Shoot, try to get 9 out of 10 adults to even agree Elvis is dead.  Additionally, over 8 out of 10 non-alumni agree we have a positive impact on leadership abilities.

This is our growth opportunity.  Spread the beam.

[Eagledad]

12 hours ago, AltadenaCraig said:

 

• 91% of non-alumni adults and 83% of non-Scout youth agree that Scouting helps character development

.... and...

• 81% of non-alumni adults and 82% of non-Scout youth agree that Scouting had a positive impact on its members’ leadership abilities.

 

I'm not surprised. Go visit all your neighbors and they will say the same thing.

This very subject came up several times on the forum during the sex abuse litigation. The high image drives a lot of those who felt the drama from the sexual abuse should have been the last nail in the BSA coffin. A few of those anti-BSA folks are still on this forum and use every chance they can to take a dig at the BSA. But the problem they have is BSA sex abuse media reports are rare, media reports of sex abuse in schools occur almost weekly.

The truth is that most of the damage to the BSA image has come from the BSA National Leadership's bad policy decisions. I personally believe that the BSA would have been a lot better off with membership had they not changed any policies since the 1960s. Yes, the haters and so-called progressives would be screaming, but they are still screaming anyway. Seems cultural social ideology and policy ignorance are no match against the image of instilling moral values in youth.

Barry

[PACAN]

Sooooo. Did they ask any of the 91 or 83% of respondents if they "agree" why they were not joining or if they left the program why?

[MattR]

17 hours ago, AltadenaCraig said:

91% of non-alumni adults and 83% of non-Scout youth agree that Scouting helps character development

...

81% of non-alumni adults and 82% of non-Scout youth agree that Scouting had a positive impact on its members’ leadership abilities.

Unfortunately that doesn't encourage them to join scouting. I mean, if so many people know the benefits then why aren't they involved? Thats an important paradox to understand.

It's just my hunch but maybe people are just parroting what they've heard and really have no idea what Scouting is about.

Most scouts, when asked if they are trustworthy,  cheerful,  friendly, etc, will say yes because the scout law says "a scout is ..." so they must be. I've come to the conclusion that I'm none of those things. I certainly try but I'll never live up to that standard. It's easy when everything is going right but wind and cold and hunger and whiny kids and traffic and some other guy being an idiot and, when I'm doing really well, I can hopefully stay ahead of that welling up of anger and just let it go. It's the difference between selfish and selfless and everyone fights that battle. I don't know, maybe a long time ago everyone realized how hard that battle is but these days selfish has won. Teenagers tend towards selfish because they don't have much experience but it seems so much harder now. Or maybe it's always been a struggle.

Either way, we all want absolutes and no pain for our children and yet, the hardest part of being a parent is coming to terms with the need for struggle. Just like noone wants their child to get sick we've found out that colds are needed to develop a good immune system. So it goes that struggling with selfish is the only way to develop humility. How many parents of 11 year olds understand that? An 11 year old has barely learned to walk when it comes to humility and their parents only know that the struggle they went through as a child is something they don't want for their kids. They look at the kool-aid that character comes from doing requirements and they rightfully have their doubts. Sure, maybe scouts does develop character but not for my kid.

It would be really useful to ask those 90% why they don't put their kids in scouts.

[skeptic]

I would suggest that it is a good deal of misinformation and a large dose of negativity by the rabid media.  Until we find a way to make it clearer how much good the program supports and can do, and get that in front of the people, it will stay hard.  Much of that goes right back to the loss of local news and neighborhood exposure.  We had our names in the local papers, and even photos.  We had little fear of people knowing we were Scouts, as the negative hype was yet to explode.  The issues were still there, but the societal responses were far less vituperative and most understood that was NOT the norm.  Scouting was simply an accepted part of the community by most, and while still targets for the "sissy" label or "goody-goody", it was not as nasty, and fewer others piled on.  Ironically, every time we have our youth out in public doing stuff we get adults and even some youth that thank us.  On occasion we have even gotten an interest in joining, though not usually followed up by them.  Small things could help, like schools NOT barring the Eagle and Gold Award graduation symbols, or even schools, as many once did, noting Scouting success in the schools.  We can do more, but we also have to try harder to overcome much of the hype still.  Meanwhile, as one local leader says, "get em out there!"

[InquisitiveScouter]

1 hour ago, MattR said:

Unfortunately that doesn't encourage them to join scouting. I mean, if so many people know the benefits then why aren't they involved? Thats an important paradox to understand.

It's just my hunch but maybe people are just parroting what they've heard and really have no idea what Scouting is about.

Most scouts, when asked if they are trustworthy,  cheerful,  friendly, etc, will say yes because the scout law says "a scout is ..." so they must be. I've come to the conclusion that I'm none of those things. I certainly try but I'll never live up to that standard. It's easy when everything is going right but wind and cold and hunger and whiny kids and traffic and some other guy being an idiot and, when I'm doing really well, I can hopefully stay ahead of that welling up of anger and just let it go. It's the difference between selfish and selfless and everyone fights that battle. I don't know, maybe a long time ago everyone realized how hard that battle is but these days selfish has won. Teenagers tend towards selfish because they don't have much experience but it seems so much harder now. Or maybe it's always been a struggle.

Either way, we all want absolutes and no pain for our children and yet, the hardest part of being a parent is coming to terms with the need for struggle. Just like noone wants their child to get sick we've found out that colds are needed to develop a good immune system. So it goes that struggling with selfish is the only way to develop humility. How many parents of 11 year olds understand that? An 11 year old has barely learned to walk when it comes to humility and their parents only know that the struggle they went through as a child is something they don't want for their kids. They look at the kool-aid that character comes from doing requirements and they rightfully have their doubts. Sure, maybe scouts does develop character but not for my kid.

It would be really useful to ask those 90% why they don't put their kids in scouts.

Romans 3:21-28

21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify.

22 This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile,

23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished—

26 he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

27 Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith.

28 For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.

You realize you will always fall short. Good on you.  What is the remedy?  Grace.  Accept it, brother 😜

 

[Eagledad]

3 hours ago, PACAN said:

Sooooo. Did they ask any of the 91 or 83% of respondents if they "agree" why they were not joining or if they left the program why?

I interviewed hundreds of scouts and parents. I narrowed the cause down to adult burnout. I can write paragraphs on how burnout drove out thousands of families, but the the BSA simply lost between 50 to 75 percent of their cub families by crossover. 
 

Barry

[AltadenaCraig]

3 hours ago, Eagledad said:

I interviewed hundreds of scouts and parents. I narrowed the cause down to adult burnout. I can write paragraphs on how burnout drove out thousands of families, but the the BSA simply lost between 50 to 75 percent of their cub families by crossover. 

@Eagledad Would you agree that given the right messaging, this too presents an opportunity?

The messaging would somehow convey to parents it's not only safe & welcome to drop-off your scout, but expected.  This inasmuch as it's the scouts' program.  As I recall in my Scoutmaster days it took half of my effort to corral parents and separate them from the scouts to give them space.

Of course, such a program relies totally on the capabilities and goodwill of SMs, ASMs, & CMs.  But I'm thinking for the average parent Scouting should offer a relief from adult burnout.

[SSScout]

I'm not going to try and quote stuff here, but the gist of the survey mentioned may be correct, and the sex abuse settlement may be one of our crosses to bear (reputation?) ,but that is not why kids join Scouting.... Some sort of Scouting.

Kids go to school usually because their parents want them to.  We (parents !) realize we want our future (kids!) to know stuff. How to read, how to write, how to , as my dad used to say "cipher" .  They stay in school, hopefully, because they (the kids ) come to LIKE learning, if it is done well by gifted, talented teachers.  It is a challenge to speak, spell, realize numbers can be fun....  The challenge is the thing, not merely the achievement, the "AHA" moment. But the certificate, the  little trophy does mean alot to the kid. 

So to with Scouting, whether it be BSA, or GSUSA, or Royal Rangers, or BP Scouts,,,   The National policy makers have , indeed , lost track of  this. The kid doesn't join Cub Scouts because she/he wants to "learn leadership".  They convince his/her parents to let him/her join because it is seen as fun, an adventure .  The patches mark the path taken, but the kid now knows about rope and knots,  knows they can hike 3 miles, carry  a canteen and maybe even cook a meal (grilled cheese is a meal).  It cannot be about sitting down and discussing , describing,  stuff. It must be about DOING stuff, and therefore taking pride in that accomplishment.  Knowledge of Poison Ivy or the old stuff in that museum we visited (with buddies),  can lead to Philmont or the summer camp over there (at least).  That is where the Leadership stuff comes from.  To lead, one must first be somewhat confident in one's self.  AND be able to see the connections between the problem/task at hand and the solutions (AHA !) . 

The national folks of , fifty, sixty  years ago who did not own up to the abuse claims must bear the responsibility of BSA's lose of reputation.  The camps sold are the sad result. Where do our Scouts go to learn , experience ?  The Army, Marine Corps should not be the first place to go to learn self responsibility and life skills.  

The adult may realize  what the end result can be (leadership?  Cooperation? Building? Happy life? ) but the kid has not thought about that, Sheldon Cooper not withstanding.  

Keep on keeping on, friends..... 

 

[Eagledad]

13 hours ago, AltadenaCraig said:

@Eagledad Would you agree that given the right messaging, this too presents an opportunity?

The messaging would somehow convey to parents it's not only safe & welcome to drop-off your scout, but expected.  This inasmuch as it's the scouts' program.  As I recall in my Scoutmaster days it took half of my effort to corral parents and separate them from the scouts to give them space.

Of course, such a program relies totally on the capabilities and goodwill of SMs, ASMs, & CMs.  But I'm thinking for the average parent Scouting should offer a relief from adult burnout.

I'm talking about leader burnout. When leaders burnout, the program becomes boring and the scouts leave. 

Your idea is sound from a marketing perspective, but it doesn't approach the real issue.

Barry

[DuctTape]

Yeah, leader burnout is a real thing. this is true in most organizations who fail to have a systematic approach to future leader recruitment and training. This also permeates to the youth; for good and for bad.

I have found that the best philosophy for myself is to build the capacity to  cultivate your replacement's replacement. This future forward approach requires longer term planning than the typical "find one's replacement". It is difficult for sure.  I still have not figured it out completely. I have figured out that just having that principle as the premise helps tremendously as it focuses one's efforts and decisions. I try to keep a first principle in mind for all my decision making.

With the scouts it is "do not do for a scout that which they can do for themselves".

With the adults it is "cultivate your replacement's replacement".

 

[SiouxRanger]

7 hours ago, DuctTape said:

I have found that the best philosophy for myself is to build the capacity to  cultivate your replacement's replacement

I came to the realization decades ago that the first step upon assuming a role in Scouting was to start looking for a successor.  I thought that accomplishing that could take several years.

It soon became apparent that my efforts would have scant success in that in a troop of 15 scouts, or so, with two pairs of brothers, leaving 13 pairs of parents as prospects, and subtracting me and the other 3 or 4 parents already active, and subtracting most of the moms who are welcome but show little interest, that left about  8 "eligible/prospective" successors.  Of those maybe one or two had been scouts…who had the time, the interest, the skills…

You get the idea-the pool of prospects was very small.

I'm in my fourth year of "retirement" from being Troop Treasurer, still serving as treasurer…I agreed to stay on for 2 years after my youngest aged out…that was 6 years ago, and no prospects in sight.

I've had no better luck at district level positions.

[DannyG]

6 hours ago, SiouxRanger said:

I came to the realization decades ago that the first step upon assuming a role in Scouting was to start looking for a successor.  I thought that accomplishing that could take several years.

It soon became apparent that my efforts would have scant success in that in a troop of 15 scouts, or so, with two pairs of brothers, leaving 13 pairs of parents as prospects, and subtracting me and the other 3 or 4 parents already active, and subtracting most of the moms who are welcome but show little interest, that left about  8 "eligible/prospective" successors.  Of those maybe one or two had been scouts…who had the time, the interest, the skills…

You get the idea-the pool of prospects was very small.

I'm in my fourth year of "retirement" from being Troop Treasurer, still serving as treasurer…I agreed to stay on for 2 years after my youngest aged out…that was 6 years ago, and no prospects in sight.

I've had no better luck at district level positions.

I found the call to action years ago when I rejoined Cub Scouts with my son. It became apparent that the Pack would quickly fall apart if new parents did not take on any leadership roles. It took me about a year to relearn the program, another year to find a place because we had a dedicated den leader, then we were running the show. Out of 8 youth that joined my son's new den as Tigers, at least 6 of their parents eventually became registered as leaders: Den Leaders/Cubmaster/Committee Chair/COR/Treasurer, etc. I had skills to bring as a former scout. But even parents who had no past experience in the program found the value and stepped up. 

Today it seems like a harder sell. We got parents to bring their kids to join with established leadership. But they sooner walk out the door than take on a leadership role themselves. Even parents who were formerly scouts. 

[skeptic]

And the obvious fact our small units NEED the adult help is often why we do not get the cubs to join us.  They go where the group is larger and has the adults involved more highly and in larger numbers.  You can almost see the parents thinking as the politely thank us for the visits.