What is it about the BSA that has allowed it to survive?

[Cburkhardt]

What is it about the BSA that has allowed it to survive?

The BSA as a whole (from the unit through national levels) has processed significant challenges during the past thirty years.  For purposes of this posting I include the discrimination lawsuits (Dale v. BSA, etc.), changes to membership standards, institution of YPT, youth abuse lawsuits, inclusion of girls in Cubs and Scouts, COVID, bankruptcy, establishment of the Summit and rebranding.  It would seem impossible for a not-for-profit organization to survive such a combination – yet the BSA moves forward. 

What attributes of the BSA have allowed it to withstand thirty years of existential challenges?  Let’s focus on organization attributes and avoid discussing what might have been done differently (that is covered in many other postings).

[Tron]

Tradition. There are a lot of people who were in scouting as a youth and want their kids in it to share the tradition.

Americana. There are people drawn to it from the aspect that is iconic and part of the overall American experience. 

Oath & Law. People are drawn to the oath and law. There is a certain thing about wanting your kids practicing certain principals/ideals and being around other kids who are also practicing those principals and ideals.  

Outdoors. There are youth and adults who want their kids to learn outdoors skills. 

 

[Cburkhardt]

I think the fundamental activity of the BSA, which is working with and helping to form the character of young people, is an underlying reason why we continue to move forward.  As long as we are believed to be doing a good job on this, we continue to have support.  We cannot take that support for granted though.

Local volunteers are the face of the BSA.  People and parents know and like our local volunteers.  They generally have good reason to trust them

Another key attribute of the BSA which has led to survival is that it is a local organization.  Local chartered organizations with local chartered organization executives who support us, local volunteer supervisory structures and visible local activities.  When difficult things happen to organizations that are distant, lines of support are easily cut.  Not so when your next-door neighbors are involved.

The BSA has been comparatively inexpensive as a youth activity.  It is easier to justify continued involvement with an organization that is a good bargain.

Generations of family tradition of involvement and engagement have helped the BSA to survive its most difficult times.

[BetterWithCheddar]

The Eagle Scout brand is still very strong.

[InquisitiveScouter]

BSA using the legal system to deter other organizations from using the terms Scouts and Scouting.

Edited May 24 by InquisitiveScouter

[fred8033]

On 5/22/2024 at 3:42 PM, Cburkhardt said:

The BSA has been comparatively inexpensive as a youth activity.  It is easier to justify continued involvement with an organization that is a good bargain.

I will challenge this one.  If your scout is active, scouting has significant cost.  If your scout and you are both involved, it's very significant.  IMHO when both scout and parent are active in scouts, the cost is at least the same as most sports; if not more.

Edited May 24 by fred8033

[JSL3300]

1 hour ago, fred8033 said:

I will challenge this one.  If your scout is active, scouting has significant cost.  If your scout and you are both involved, it's very significant.  IMHO when both scout and parent are active in scouts, the cost is at least the same as most sports; if not more.

100% this. Our council just announced that they'll be doing a council fee that matches the national fee so now before one single activity, it is $170 to be a scout. As far as I can see, this gets you zero fun. My family has two scouts and two leaders. We're looking at $470 before a single camping trip, rank patch, anything. 

Maybe the small expense was once a draw (When my boys started in 2018, it was $33 for national, $42 pack fee and that wasn't even very long ago!) but that's in the past. 

[DannyG]

Scouting empowers young people to leadership through its methods: Scout Oath and Law, Patrol method, etc.

[Cburkhardt]

We are Inexpensive.   The annual expense of involvement in our Troop is about $1,000 per year.  That includes annual national dues, our council program fee, summer camp and fees for troop participation (campouts, etc.).  That is under $100/month, which in my experience as a parent is indeed quite inexpensive.  You cannot name another youth organization that provides anywhere near that deal for a quality year-around experience.  My Sea Scout Ship is a bit more (around $1,200/year).  So yes, we are inexpensive.  

Our unit always supported the Friends of Scouting effort, so our families continue to contribute the same amount to support the Council (now as a program fee instead of a Friends of Scouting contribution).       

[Cburkhardt]

Outdoors and Camps.  Our movement teaches our young people how to master the outdoors.  The thought of heading outdoors for the weekend is very positive and that helped us get through the difficulties.   Some of our camps approach matching the beauty of our national parks.  This is what comes to mind for many when they think of Scouting.  

[MattR]

Beauty and expensive are in the eye of the beholder, so I'll leave that be.

On 5/22/2024 at 1:32 PM, Cburkhardt said:

What attributes of the BSA have allowed it to withstand thirty years of existential challenges?

Momentum? The membership in 1995 was about 1M scouts (so not cubs or anything else). Right before covid that number had dropped about 25% to 750k. Covid has cut that number another 40%. Time will tell if the BSA withstood or fell to a thousand cuts.

2 hours ago, Cburkhardt said:

Outdoors and Camps.  Our movement teaches our young people how to master the outdoors.  The thought of heading outdoors for the weekend is very positive and that helped us get through the difficulties.   Some of our camps approach matching the beauty of our national parks.  This is what comes to mind for many when they think of Scouting.  

I wish the BSA would focus on those first two sentences. I would add that it also helps learn about working with others.

Yesterday a scout called me up asking about some volunteering info. Well, he was my first scout that joined when I became SM some 20 years ago. He had a rough time as a kid and I won't get into why but he has fond memories of scouts. We talked, mainly because I'm an old man and also have fond memories. He said scouting really helped him learn some important lessons. He talked about leadership, the outdoors, working with younger scouts, just having fun with his friends. He made good memories. I think that's another aspect of the BSA's staying power. A lot of parents want for their kids what they had as kids.

[DuctTape]

Total cost is on a continuum. I have seen high quality active outdoor troops which were relatively  inexpensive. I have seen low quality less active troops be more expensive. And everthing in between. A quality program is not synonymous with expensive.

Quality, Easy, Cheap. pick two.

A thrifty troop fills the $ gap with more work/effort. 

[SiouxRanger]

Well, as to cost, it depends on just how far a scout moves through the program.  Having 3 scouts who earned Eagle and a number of Philmont treks, and having helped numerous other scouts borrow or purchase gear over 20+ years, some truths have appeared:

In a scout's early career, they usually get by with their existing clothes, heavy duty shoes, family camping type sleeping bags, blankets, rain coats, and such.  It is already owned, heavy, bulky, adequate for troop car camping, cabin camping, or situations where in the event of really inclement weather, scouts can resort to the shelter of cabins or vehicles.  They only need to be warm (or cool), dry, fed, etc.

As the scout faces more challenging camping, where better equipment is necessary for comfort or safety, they become aware of the need for better gear:  lighter, more durable, more water resistant/proof, more comfortable, warmer, more wicking, more UV resistant/proof, more wind-resistant, repairable in the field, and so on.  This is where increasing cost comes in.  And those costs can be phased in over a scout's career. Being in the northern half of the country winters are considerably colder than southern climes, there is a pattern of how folks have acquired gear.  And the pattern is quite variable, but some general trends.

First, they tend to purchase better sleeping bags for warmth, better boots, a warmer coat, or rain gear. In all likelihood, none of these will be suitable for a Philmont trek, but they are an improvement.

Second, scouts look to buying a decent pack.  In my experience, a decent pack is the one expense that needs be made only once if done right.

(Warning, big digression:)  I am an external frame person/advocate/fanatic. In my youth, that's all there were for packs of any size adequate to carry a winter's campout worth of gear. They had to be big volume because winter gear is bulky. Kelty was THE pack at the time.  I currently carry a Dana Design K2 Loadmaster. (Dana Designs has other models of likely the same utility.) They are available on eBay from time to time-either well below initial retail or at or above initial retail.  Mine was purchased at retail 20 years ago for $300. I easily carried 65 pounds at Philmont.  (Why that much, is another seminar).  Backpacker pack of the year in 2012±? I like external frame packs because:  I can grab the frame to pick it up to put it on, it holds its shape empty, it leans against a tree neatly, and has better ventilation across the back when worn. I own 3, and folks in my troop have purchased another 4.

Since all those years ago, internal frame packs have progressed a great deal.

At the end of the day, I choosing a backpack, first, it has to fit the body of the Scout, that is, length of torso (and the more adjustable the pack is for the Scout's growth, the better). Second, it has to have the volume to carry the gear needed.  Winter gear is BULKY-needs more volume. Third, it has to be comfortable. (Fourth, you'll need a rain cover for it. I do not rely on a "waterproof pack." I want a waterproof rain cover-which I can use to cover myself, if necessary.)

Also, perhaps a tent, if the troop does not provide them.  

Third, senior scouts headed to Philmont or another high adventure experience may well replace a good deal of all their prior gear.  Generally looking to reduce weight.

As a scout progresses to more challenging adventures, they not only begin to recognize the limitations of their lower-grade gear, but also recognize the necessity of better gear.

The good news is that by the time scouts get to that point, they are heavily involved in the program, the adventure, and it is clear that the expense is justified.

[BetterWithCheddar]

I no longer view Scouting as "inexpensive," but when assessing the program, I consider cost a strength because it still fits in most family budgets. Cub Scouts can be done well for $50/mo. Scouts can be done well for $100/mo. Sure, it adds up fast, but those are reasonable numbers for 2024.

 

[AwakeEnergyScouter]

11 hours ago, SiouxRanger said:

 I am an external frame person/advocate/fanatic

I'm with you! The ventilation and being able to transfer the weight onto the hips is huge. I have two external frame packs and I'm not getting rid of them at any price! My old, smaller pack for my scout, the larger volume one for me. The soft packs were originally for climbers and it made sense for them, but I'm not a climber, I'm a hiker.