Don't Want To Rock The Boat!!

[Eamonn]

There are it seems to me from reading the posting in this forum a fair sized group of Scouter's who seem to think that myself and people who think the way that I do are "Full Of It." (Whatever it might be!!) Or we are "Book Thumpers!" Or we don't Scout in the "Real World". Of course everyone is free to think what they like.

I do honestly think that every Scouter who posts in this forum, even the misguided ones do have at heart the well being of the kids in their charge and the well being of this organization. Many have deep and wonderful feelings for the unit (Pack, Troop or Crew) in which they serve. I have to admit that having seen the District and Troop that I belonged too, not there anymore is painful. I of course cherish the memories of the Scouts that were in the troop, but the painful bit is knowing that it will never be there to serve the kids that are in the area in the days to come.

As a Council and as a District we take the time to make long range plans. Some of these plans seem to be more of a wish list more than anything else. But having a plan does make things a lot easier. It is far better when someone comes along and says that they would like to make a donation if we can tell them where their money will be spent!!

I still pay special attention to the pack that OJ belonged too and I served as Cubmaster. I am no longer a member of the pack, not on the charter or involved in the day to day operations. I do take pride in the fact that when the time came for me to go I left it in good shape. Relations with the church were far better, the COR was real and worked. The Pack Committee was a working committee and the leaders were committed to the program. Of course in a lot of these things it would seem that we were just lucky, we found the right people for the job. Still here we are years later and there has been 3 Cubmasters now on the 4th. The pack and the pack leaders started a troop and the troop has started a crew.

If we really feel for the unit that we serve, we need to take time out and look in our crystal balls and think about what is going to happen in the future? We need to make long range, long term plans.

If something isn't working we need to fix it. Sure these plans will be there long after we have moved on. But this "Loose Ship" is always in danger of sinking.

If we have a Chartering Organization that doesn't seem to be taking any or very much interest in the Unit or Units that they charter we need to find a way of getting them on board. This might just mean working on the COR.

Over the past month or so there has in our District been a situation in one of our units. I had several meetings with the Committees (Pack and Troop) They had a "Paper" COR who not only wasn't doing anything with the units, but when I asked the Executive Officer about him, the Executive Officer wasn't sure who he was!! Working with the Organization we found that there was an Ex-Scoutmaster who was a member of the organization, talking with him we found that he was willing to take on the job.

With the pack we had a Parish Priest, that wasn't pro- Scouting, we had to win him and the parishioners over we did this by getting more involved with the activities of the church and making the pack more visible to the parishioners. Going from a Cubmaster ruled Pack to a Committee ruled pack wasn't easy. We went through 3 Committee Chairs till we found one that "Got it".

Once the unit has a strong foundation and the unit has a strong and working committee, it can manage the change of leadership. The program people can work on delivering the program and working for the youth. Even when things don't go as they should the unit will survive, because the CO along with the Committee will see that it does.

Sure you can make do and just serve the youth that are in the program today and not rock the boat but we need to do better than that.

Eamonn.

[acco40]

Eamonn, I agree but ask this of the Scouters you know - how many would be involved with the program if it was not for their sons?

[Fuzzy Bear]

If not rocking the boat was your goal then you up righted it using another method, the book. Using the book has great value because it really has been written with experience, not just with words. You said that OJ's Pack had been lucky to find the Right Leaders. Most likely your use of the word luck was a modest way of saying that Just Regular People got serious about having real fun and the Pack prospered. Using the word luck also means that those Really Good Leaders enjoyed each other's company and tried hard to do their best on a regular basis. Luck also says that events like planning sessions and coffee meetings and Sunday afternoon get togethers won't always happen. Luck says that it happened in the past and it ought to happen again but only with Very Special Leaders, just like before.

 

It appears that you are still doing it today. Maybe with more of that luck it won't go away at least not with the kind of Leadership you provide to so many Friends.

 

FB

[Eamonn]

Yes I do think that at times we are fortunate or lucky. The sad thing is that we can't relay on luck or good fortune.Finding the right Committee Chair, was luck. Having had to go through 3 before we got a good one was bad luck?

Sure most people who join our ranks at the unit level do have sons in the program, matching these people to the right job takes management. I know of several really nice people who just don't have what it takes to be the SM, but would make ideal ASM's.

When I see people serving in multiple positions I see a disaster waiting to happen. It's not good for the person doing it and will in the end bite us in the tail.

We have people who are good at what they are doing and we put pressure on them to do something else or fill the vacant position, we then wonder why it didn't work?

How often do we see in these forums "Our Chartering Organization does nothing for us"?

Surely we must see that if the owner of the unit isn't involved and doesn't care we are on shaky ground from the get go. When we look at a committee that is made up of leaders, who takes over when the leaders leave?

If we stand back and look at the unit we love and ask where will this unit be in 5 years and then in ten years? Surely we have no other choice but to fix the things that aren't right.

Some Packs and Troops take a lot of pride in their past, we need to take pride in their future. Sure we might not be there for one reason or another but if we are really going to serve the youth we need to ensure that the unit has every chance to continue long after we have gone.

Eamonn.

[dsteele]

When it comes right down to it, for good or ill, we make our own luck.

 

I'm in Eamonn's camp on this one.

 

Unc.

[ozemu]

I used to be the biggest agin th govment person in Scouts.

 

I always new a better way.

 

Now I have pulled my head in a bit and believe that Scout policy is generally spot on. By the book is actually unusual around here. But we have the biggest Troop and growing (again thanks for the help everyone) so it must be working.

 

But let me split hairs a bit.

 

The book is best. Scouting for Boys etc are classics and give an excellant feel. They are not policy. Current and establiehed publications work provided they have been tested. Anything over say five years since first edition I would consider tested and worth following diligently.

 

New publications (less than five years from first edition) may still have holes in them and common sense should always be applied to what the text contains. But do not go against current policy. Just make it work and tell the appropriate people where it needs a tweek or rewrite.

 

The book is also a bottom line. If you can enhance the program by adding to policy, rules etc without infringing them then go and do better. I certainly have. I follow all the rules (Im a little late sometimes with paperwork) but I add lots.

 

What I add is considered and discussed. It is presented as options and all my adults and PLs have power of veto. More brains than one etc.

 

What is a good idea worth adding?

 

You Americans have lots of good ideas. But so do others. Look around. I found this site and some pretty weird ideas viewed from over here but some work real well (thanks again). Maybe other Scouting assocs have ideas you can adapt. Certainly I find some more up to date practices in my industry (outdoor education) and I borrow from there. You have in the USA the Assoc of Experiential Ed, Outward Bound, National Outdoor Leadership School and Project Adventure. All are world leaders in being outdoors with kids. Borrow from there as much as you like.

 

But follow the rules. If it needs changing then tell someone.

 

Do you have a process over there that allows for this?

[Eamonn]

Hi Ozemu,

I don't know very much about Scouting in your fair Land. I kinda think that the set up you have is very much like what the Brits have or had.

When I was a Leader of a troop in the UK, I was a leader who received a warrant from the Scout Association. In most cases the approval to become a leader came from the Group Scout Leader, who normally handed this to the Section leader (Cubs, Scouts or Venturing) In some cases for certain positions the approval might come from the district commissioner.

In the UK there were and I think still is different types of Scout Groups. There are Open Groups:An Open Scout Group has no formal relationship with any other organization and has a policy of unrestricted recruitment.

There were and are:Sponsored Groups

Guidance on sponsoring agreements, responsibilities of sponsoring authorities and agreements with regard to property and equipment are contained within the fact sheet Community Sponsorship available from the Scout Information Centre.

A Sponsored Scout Group can be sponsored by an organization approved by Headquarters. The Group will have a policy of recruitment defined in a formal agreement with the Sponsoring Authority.

Examples of approved organizations include religious bodies, schools, industrial or commercial firms, residents' and community associations and formations of Her Majesty's Forces.

In the case of a Sponsored Scout Group which is sponsored by a university, college or school, membership of the Group must be voluntary for the students or pupils of the Sponsoring Organization.

Sponsored Scout Groups may have a policy of unrestricted or restricted recruitment as defined in a formal agreement between the District Executive Committee and the Sponsoring Authority.

No restriction on recruitment may be made which contravenes the provisions of any law.

The organization which sponsors the Group shall appoint a person or committee to act as the Sponsoring Authority. The District Commissioner must be informed of this appointment.

In the event of a disagreement between the Sponsoring Authority and the Group Scout Leader, the matter must be referred to the District Commissioner.

The group that I belonged to was an open group.We were very much on our own. Our Scout Group (Pack, Troop, and Venture Scout unit) Were the 17th Fulham (Pioneers) Of course we were members of the Scout Association and paid a annual fee for the privilege of being a member. But we didn't have a sponsor and did not have ties to any other organization.

Here in the USA, that would never fly. (Sort of!!)

Every Unit is chartered by an outside organization. (The sort of comes in because a group of people who agree with the values of the BSA can form their own Chartering Organization. In our District we had a Crew which was Chartered by a local coffee shop!! Sad to say the coffee sales weren't that great and the shop went belly up.)

To be a unit leader in the BSA, you must first be approved by the organization that holds the charter.

The Chartering Organizations do "Own" the units. They either at the local or at the National level decide that the program that is owned by the BSA is the program that they want for their youth.

Looking at the list of the Top 10 Organizations: (My list is from 1/16/02

United Methodist Church: 12,163 units. Serving 408,629 youth.

LDS Churches: 33,755 Units. Serving 406,260 youth.

Public Schools, Board of Education: 10,566 units. Serving 383,657 youth.

Roman Catholic Churches:9,603 units. Serving 339,846 youth.

Parent Clubs in Schools:3,408 units. Serving 147,634 youth

Lutheran Churches: 4,374 units. Serving 150,534 youth.

Presbyterian Churches:3,955 units. Serving 139,333 youth

Baptist Churches:5,040 units. Serving 115,562 youth.

Business/Industry: 4,565 units. Serving 91,326 youth

Lions International:2,907 units. Serving 90,905 youth.

Getting used to the Chartering idea took me some time.

The idea is a very good one. These Organizations share our values and see the value of the program offered by the BSA. They select a people of good character to deliver the program to the youth in their area.

Most of the problems that arrive on my desk, both now and when I served as a District Commissioner are not to do with program, they have to do with people at the administration end not knowing or following the system.

We have adults that can't get on.

The District and the Council can help by offering to listen and maybe point out what might help. But we can't do much else.

There are units that lose a leader or need leaders.

We have a hard enough time filling all the District and Commissioner positions. We (The District or Council) Don't have a list of Leaders that are waiting for an opening. Filling these spots is up to the Unit Committee and the Chartering Organization. I know a lot of people, but if there is a good relationship between the Scout unit and the Chartering Organization, they working together will know people from within their ranks that share the values and understand something about either the Scout program and or the organization that holds the charter.

We have people who just don't understand the way it works.

A few years back a troop that had been meeting in a local church for eons started to have big problems with the new preacher. The troop leaders didn't see that they were part of the church and the preacher didn't see it either. The troop leaders wanted to take "their stuff" and "their kids" and move their troop someplace else. The Preacher couldn't see why the Scouts and the Cub Scouts could meet at the church and not pay any rent. The Charter Organization Representative was a long time member of the troop, but not active in the church. We met with the Preacher and explained that the Troop and the Pack were an extension of the churches youth ministry. We met with the Scouter's and explained that they were part of the church. They still didn't see it. They wanted it to be their troop. We did manage to find a working COR. He worked wonders improving the communications between the Church and the people working with the Scout programs. As it turned out the new Preacher didn't last long and the replacement was the father of an Eagle Scout. Many of the "Hot Head" Leaders have also gone. The troop has "Adopted" the church Cemetery and grounds. I met with the Church Council not so long back about starting a Venture Crew. This Church Committee is so proud of their troop and their boys. We now have a crew there and the everyone is happy. Many of the new boys are from the church, their parents have become involved in the Scout programs either as Committee members or as Leaders, some of these people also serve on the Church Committee.

I really think that if the Chartering Organizations were more active in selecting the leaders that will will deliver the program to their youth, we would avoid a lot of problems. If our Scout people would turn to their Committee or the COR when they have a problem, before they phone the DE or the Council Office, things would run a lot better.

It is a fairly safe bet that these Organizations will out live us and we need to do everything that we can to get them on board in order to ensure that Scouting in our localities will be here for the youth of the future. We say that we belong to a very loose ship and smile. We **** that the chartering organizations don't do enough for our units. We say that people who talk about working with these organizations are living in never , never land! But without them we don't have Scouting in the USA.

These organizations are very well represented at the national level, we do need to do a better job of making them get involved at the District level. I would dearly love to see more COR's attend the District meetings and the Council AGM where they vote in the incoming officers. I wish that Unit Leaders would put pressure on the Troop and Pack Committee to ensure that the COR attends their meetings and takes their ideas and concerns to the District Committee meeting.

Eamonn.