Sharing campsite shower/restroom facility

[Roadkill Patrol]

Looking for thought on how to handle a situation we faced last year that we will likely encounter this year.  The summer camp we go to has a latrine/shower shared by two campsites.  Inside, there is a urinal, sink, mirror, toilet, & shower.  On the backside, there is a shower and toilet, each having their own door with no access to the inside main area.  There is a sign on front that can be changed to either Youth or Adult to identify who is currently inside the main part of the building.  Last year, our boy troop arrived after the female troop that was in the next campsite.  They placed their own signs on the building that stated females only inside, and males use the exterior shower and toilet.  The exterior shower is very small, with nowhere to put your clean clothes without getting wet.  We spoke with the female troop about setting up a schedule so that both troops could use the inside portion as there was also no hand-washing station on the outside.  They would not budge.  Camp commissioners could not get them to change either and the only fix was to bring in a portable foot-pump handwashing station for us to use, or travel 3 campsites away to use the nearest empty campsite facility.  We had twice the number of people that had to use the facilities.  I am suggesting that the camp have a set procedure that everyone must follow so one troop can't make up their own rules.  An easy one I see is adding to the signage that would include Adult Female, Adult Male, Youth Female, or Youth Male that can be changed on the outside so you know who is in there before entering.  Does anyone have any other thoughts?

[HashTagScouts]

I'd be having a conversation with the Camp Director, now. Make it clear to them- you're open to THEIR suggestions on how to share the use of the latrine, but explain in exactly the terms you outline here why only having the outside facility is not acceptable. It's a true public health issue if you and your troop cannot wash hands at times during the day. And, you're troop is paying the same as that troop, so it is not acceptable to you. If moving that troop to adjoin another site that has a female troop is a better option, then let the camp do so.

[InquisitiveScouter]

A Scout is Courteous.

And their actions were not.

If the site facilities are shared, then they are shared.  If anyone put up a sign that said "females only", I would first address it with the Camp Commissioner/Director.  If Camp Staff did not put up the sign, I'd take it down for the other Troop and return it.  And then put up a sign that said "Shared Use." or "Unisex."

And I would tell my Scouts to use that shower.

If you do not get a sensible solution from Troop/Commissioner/Camp Director, call your own Scout Executive.

 

 

 

Edited March 26 by InquisitiveScouter

[Eagledad]

How can a troop over ride the camp director?

Barry

 

[NealOnWheels]

I recently took a flight and as we approached the destination gate I heard something along the lines of "We know you have many choices when choosing carriers and thank you for choosing XXX airlines"

The same is true of Scout camps.  If the camp cannot at least make an attempt to correct the situation they should not be surprised if that unit does not return next year.

[Eagle94-A1]

3 hours ago, Roadkill Patrol said:

Camp commissioners could not get them to change either and the only fix was to bring in a portable foot-pump handwashing station for us to use, or travel 3 campsites away to use the nearest empty campsite facility.  We had twice the number of people that had to use the facilities.

If the camp commissioners and other staff are not doing their job, go to another camp.

[curious_scouter]

This is a camp problem, not a you problem.  Echoing similar advice:  Don't leave it to chance.  Address it with them before committing to camp and then hold them to it.  If they can't commit to making it a comfortable experience (facilities and experience/emotionally) then find a better option if you can.

[AwakeEnergyScouter]

Your sign idea is solid, and the other troop's behavior was not. That's not at all acceptable. First dibs on the big shower is not scout-like at all! And I'm with Eagledad, how can a troop override the camp leadership? Camp leadership needs to fix this for you. 

I'm also struck by that they had their own signs, which means they planned it. And it wasn't just that they hogged the good shower and sink, they did so by reference to gender. I can't know for a fact, but it smells like benevolent sexism, like they thought that they deserve the nice facilities because it's men's duty to sacrifice for women. Well, that's not how scouting works, and if that's what's in fact going on it's even more important that camp leadership fix this and don't let themselves get overruled by a troop.

IMO you shouldn't even have to go to another camp to avoid this. If someone has to leave, it should be them, not you.

[Double Eagle]

I"m sure this camp falls under a council.  How about bringing it up to the council board.  Just not going is good for your unit, but leaves the same problem that would fill your troop's week.  How about identifying the troop to council and camp that took over the latrine.  I'm more of the thinking Scouts can be courteous, but not a weak victim and just take it on the chin.  Standing up for yourself and others is scout like too...brave?   And to those leaders on the site (I hope they contribute) that condone taking over the latrine, you allowed Scouts to show an ugly side of shared camping and will be used as a negative example for some time.

[DannyG]

I will make an assumption that the troop always travels with these signs, so that the girls troop has separate facilities from the adult male leadership, as YPT requires. 

I am surprised that camp staff couldn't find compromise acceptable for both troops. I advise book a different campsite. Or find another camp altogether. 

[InquisitiveScouter]

23 minutes ago, DannyG said:

I will make an assumption that the troop always travels with these signs, so that the girls troop has separate facilities from the adult male leadership, as YPT requires. 

I am surprised that camp staff couldn't find compromise acceptable for both troops. I advise book a different campsite. Or find another camp altogether. 

Does not require separate facilities... G2SS is quite clear...

Separate shower and latrine facilities should be provided for male and female adults as well as for male and female youth. If separate facilities are not available, separate times should be scheduled and posted.

Should does not mean must.

 

[DannyG]

6 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Does not require separate facilities... G2SS is quite clear...

Separate shower and latrine facilities should be provided for male and female adults as well as for male and female youth. If separate facilities are not available, separate times should be scheduled and posted.

Should does not mean must.

 

Right. Signs can be moved. Schedules can be adjusted. Separate times scheduled and posted for youth/adult and female/male is good practice. That the troop was unable to accommodate male troop camping next to them speaks volumes of their leadership.

[Roadkill Patrol]

Thank you all for the input.  We spoke with the camp and they will make sure that troops follow the proper procedure and that no one will have sole use over any portion of the facilities.

 

[qwazse]

On 3/28/2024 at 10:29 AM, Roadkill Patrol said:

Thank you all for the input.  We spoke with the camp and they will make sure that troops follow the proper procedure and that no one will have sole use over any portion of the facilities.

I’m glad you can air your grievances. My conservation: there is a great temptation among leaders of female troops to clear a zone for the girls. In my experience this is especially true for male leaders. We had one upset that our boys were fishing behind their girls tents. Well, when they weren’t girls tents, nobody made a fuss about where our boys were fishing. Heck, the previous year, with a different female troop, not only did they not complain their leaders were grateful that our boys treated them like fellow scouts.

Needless to say the boys are frustrated about the mixed signals. And, the girls often don’t like it as well.

[Armymutt]

I haven't experience Scouts BSA yet, but I hope this isn't the norm.  This sort of behavior and actions can make Scouts resentful of the new paradigm of BSA.