A Question About a WEBELOS Attending a Scout Troop Camping Trip

[InquisitiveScouter]

Just now, RememberSchiff said:

Back to @scoutldr point, is parent authorization obtained during this my.scouting transfer?

(I'm old)

Yes.

My practice is to get this through an email or text exchange.

Others accept a verbal.  In person or over the phone.

[RichardB]

@InquisitiveScouter single Webelos cannot camp with a unit.    Webelos camp only as a Den or with a Pack.   https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/gss03/#a

• Only Webelos and Arrow of Light dens may conduct den coordinated campouts.  Webelos and Arrow of Light den coordinated campouts are restricted to no more than two consecutive nights.  Den camping only includes the Webelos or Arrow of Light youth. As with pack coordinated campouts, the den must have a BALOO trained adult leader in attendance and all Youth Protection policies apply.
  • Webelos/Arrow of Light Den Camping may participate and camp at a Scouts BSA troop unit campout. All Cub Scout camping requirements still apply, including the den must have a BALOO trained adult leader in attendance and all Youth Protection policies apply.
• Webelos/Arrow of Light Dens may only participate at a Scouts BSA “camporee” as day visitors.

[InquisitiveScouter]

It's not a den coordinated campout.  Thanks

[RichardB]

9 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

It's not a den coordinated campout.  Thanks

And that is why it cannot be done with a single Webelos.  

[InquisitiveScouter]

But if he was not already registered, at 11 years old, he would be OK?

Can you see the incongruity in your interpretation of that policy?

This youth has already met two of the three existing criteria to join.  But because he is registered already, you impose only the third criterion?

And... to take that to its logical extreme... because he cannot withdraw his membership, on what date would he be relieved of your policy burden, if he chooses not to finish his AOL?

Edited March 14 by InquisitiveScouter

[InquisitiveScouter]

22 hours ago, HashTagScouts said:

It's in the G2SS (sort-of): Youth who are not registered in the unit may not accompany parents or siblings in camping programs of Scouts BSA, Venturing, and Sea Scouting.

Too much liability for us.

Just curious...

What do you mean by "too much liability"??  Would you specify, please?

[DannyG]

20 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

@DannyG. May want to check out the updated G2SS. They changed how Webelos camp, including with troop.

 

Is this what you mean?

Quote

• Cub Scout youth should attend the camping event with their parent(s)/ guardian(s).
  • Webelos and Arrow of Light Den Camping: Each Scout should attend with their parent(s) or guardian(s). A Webelos or Arrow of Light Scout whose parent or legal guardian cannot attend a den overnight camping trip may participate under the supervision of at least two registered leaders. The leaders and a parent or legal guardian must agree to the arrangement, and all Youth Protection policies apply.

 

[HashTagScouts]

1 hour ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Just curious...

What do you mean by "too much liability"??  Would you specify, please?

Not having time to gain some working knowledge about a youth can be problematic. We had a youth join several years ago, and went camping with us like their second week in the troop. Saturday afternoon the kid was off the wall (amongst other troubling things, he was making suicidal ideation comments to the other Scouts). Come to find out, med form was inaccurate, the kid is on meds, and parent did not say anything to us nor sent his meds with him. It's not a situation that we would want to take on that someone off the street comes on an overnight with us. I couldn't name one troop in our District that would be OK with it either.

[InquisitiveScouter]

17 minutes ago, HashTagScouts said:

Come to find out, med form was inaccurate, the kid is on meds, and parent did not say anything to us nor sent his meds with him. It's not a situation that we would want to take on that someone off the street comes on an overnight with us. I couldn't name one troop in our District that would be OK with it either.

OK, so what's the difference in that Scout having "joined".

Your insurance coverage was exactly the same.

And you haven't really done anything to prevent exactly what you have outlined from happening again, have you?

Are you saying that, once having "joined", you still do not allow a Scout to camp, until you feel comfortable that the parent has filled out the medical form correctly and sends the Scout with his meds?  How do you know when you have reached that point?

BTW, we require the medical form, a signed permission slip,  and have that conversation with the parents in the presence of a witness.  If the parent misrepresents and something happens, then that is on them.

P.S.  That conversation includes behavior expectations, and that a parent must always be available to come pick them up during the weekend.

Edited March 14 by InquisitiveScouter

[DannyG]

First decide if the scout is camping with the troop as a Cub Scout, or as a prospective BSA scout. Apply rules from there.

For a prospective scout to join an overnight camping trip, our unit needs a completed application and health form. The ink may not be dry and the dues check may not be cleared... I know we have taken a signed application to the council office on Friday morning so a scout can join our trip on Friday night. Since the scout in question is already a registered Cub Scout, it's just a transfer, and the membership fees have already been paid through his Cub Scout registration.

Or else Cub Scout rules apply. Where I am unclear is can the scout be dual-registered to a Pack and a Troop at the same time? Or is a scout unable to earn Arrow of Light once he joins a Troop?

[HashTagScouts]

9 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

OK, so what's the difference in that Scout having "joined".

Your insurance coverage was exactly the same.

And you haven't really done anything to prevent exactly what you have outlined from happening again, have you?

Are you saying that, once having "joined", you still do not allow a Scout to camp, until you feel comfortable that the parent has filled out the medical form correctly and sends the Scout with his meds?  How do you know when you have reached that point?

BTW, we require the medical form, a signed permission slip,  and have that conversation with the parents in the presence of a witness.  If the parent misrepresents and something happens, then that is on them.

How sure do you feel about "Your insurance coverage was exactly the same"? Have you asked your Council that question?

When a new youth comes to attend a troop meeting, we spend time talking with the youth and parent about how we operate, expectations we have, etc. Usually that gets the parent to give us feedback on what they see as areas we need to be aware of- whether it is allergies, is their child introverted, do they tend to gravitate to kids their own age, or are they more inclined to want to cling to adults, etc. Can't say it is a common thing, but we have had conversations with parents of some new crossovers about whether the parent feels that their kid is ready for being overnight without them. We've never not taken their "OK" about it. That particular youth, in retrospect, should have been a concern from the get go- first meeting, parent walked them in, introduced themselves, and then booked it, and the next week sent the kid in with the paperwork and $ for patrol food but never actually came into the meeting hall.. 
 

4 minutes ago, DannyG said:

First decide if the scout is camping with the troop as a Cub Scout, or as a prospective BSA scout. Apply rules from there.

For a prospective scout to join an overnight camping trip, our unit needs a completed application and health form. The ink may not be dry and the dues check may not be cleared... I know we have taken a signed application to the council office on Friday morning so a scout can join our trip on Friday night. Since the scout in question is already a registered Cub Scout, it's just a transfer, and the membership fees have already been paid through his Cub Scout registration.

Or else Cub Scout rules apply. Where I am unclear is can the scout be dual-registered to a Pack and a Troop at the same time? Or is a scout unable to earn Arrow of Light once he joins a Troop?

Once they have moved up to Scouts BSA, Cub advancement ends.

[RichardB]

2 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

But if he was not already registered, at 11 years old, he would be OK?

 

But.... he is not, from your OP, he is an active Cub Scout, still engaged in Cub Scout advancement and programming.    

[InquisitiveScouter]

6 minutes ago, DannyG said:

Where I am unclear is can the scout be dual-registered to a Pack and a Troop at the same time? Or is a scout unable to earn Arrow of Light once he joins a Troop?

A youth cannot be registered in both programs.  They are mutually exclusive. I looked in the Registration Guidebook, but could not find this specific prohibition.  But, I do know the electronic systems do not allow this status.  So, your Registrar would not do it.

In implementation, yes:  A youth is unable to earn the AOL once he joins Scouts, BSA.

 

[InquisitiveScouter]

7 minutes ago, RichardB said:

But.... he is not, from your OP, he is an active Cub Scout, still engaged in Cub Scout advancement and programming.    

LOL, thanks.  You see the logic trap, therefore avoid answering the question.

I will appeal to Caesar, and hold hope that common sense still reigns.

@qwazse, you are once again proven correct!  Rule #1 (Don’t ask for a rule, you’ll live to regret it.)  Not regretting it yet, but getting there 😜 

[InquisitiveScouter]

1 hour ago, HashTagScouts said:

How sure do you feel about "Your insurance coverage was exactly the same"? Have you asked your Council that question?

Yes, our Registrar confirms they are covered by our Accident and Insurance policy, per

"Scouts and guests who are being encouraged to become registered Scouts and volunteers are automatically insured while in attendance at a scheduled activity."

https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/gss10/