Do units support the council, or council supports the units?

[Eagle94-A1]

Not in a good mood. I found out that my council cancelled a district event for the second time, with 8 days notice. Apparently they were not going to make enough money on the event, so they cancelled it, leaving units and volunteers who planned to attend and staff the event high and dry. As I mentioned, this is the second time they cancelled an event on short noticed. The first event was cancelled because it was "competing" with another, similar event. Yet the first event was an annual event for over 30 years, and the "competing" event only started before COVID, and didn't happen again until this year. The new event could not handle the extra participants from the first event when they tried to do that event instead.As for summer camp, there are so many issues, most units go out of council. Folks for years have given feedback to the powers that be for years, and it has fallen on deaf ears. So the council is not providing the programming opportunities they promised, which hurts units. I've already mentioned the recruiting challenges in other posts that council will not help units with.

But here is the kicker, the council complains when units do not want to do FOS presentations. They complain when troops do not want to go to the council's summer camp. And they are now complaining folks do not want to do their weekend activities.

So the question is, Do units support the council, or council supports the units?

[ShootingSports]

Organization run by volunteers or professionals? .........Failure at "council" is failure of volunteers........ just my 2 cents. 

[Eagle94-A1]

1 hour ago, ShootingSports said:

Organization run by volunteers or professionals? .........Failure at "council" is failure of volunteers........ just my 2 cents. 

I was focusing on units, not district and council committees. Shall we add this to the topic,  or start a new thread? Serious question.

[ShootingSports]

One of the best quotes I have provided any volunteer in our organization.  "If your not happy, pick up your toys and play in another area". I have told youth, leaders and professionals this.  Discouragement is tough to deal with, not matter where in BSA.  I try to tell myself, all scouting happens only at the unit level (and all units are run by volunteers)

[Cburkhardt]

Councils are intended to support Units.  A unit exists to work with a Chartered Organization to operate unit programming for young people.  A council exists to grow, improve and preserve Scouting at the unit level through its professional and volunteer staff.  It also exists to provide program opportunities that a unit cannot conduct by itself (like summer camp and certain activities).  Councils exist to protect the overall organization and members (especially youth) by assuring adherence to policies on things like advancement, life safety and YPT.  Essentially, councils exist to serve units, but units are responsible to be active partners in that process.  Units and their volunteers do not serve or “work for” the councils.

The single best thing a council does is to work to support units to operate in a quality manner, and it does this via its district executives and volunteer district committees and commissioners.  Putting on events like camporees is really a secondary function of districts and the quality of these activities is always dependent on the quality of the volunteers involved.  District camporees are normally cancelled only when the organizers have done such a poor job that the event is destined to be a fiasco for program and financial reasons – and there is no advantage in allowing a fiasco. 

The factors you raise indicate there are probably programming, scheduling, planning and financial mistakes being made.  There needs to be some fresh blood involved to organize the next camporee.  Consider volunteering to help to help organize your next district camporee to assure a steady organizing and execution process.  Finally, accept that these events are often less-than-perfect.

[Eagle94-A1]

11 hours ago, ShootingSports said:

 I try to tell myself, all scouting happens only at the unit level (and all units are run by volunteers)

That is why many volunteers in my area are no longer volunteering on district and council levels.

 

 

[Eagle94-A1]

2 hours ago, Cburkhardt said:

Councils are intended to support Units.  A unit exists to work with a Chartered Organization to operate unit programming for young people.  A council exists to grow, improve and preserve Scouting at the unit level through its professional and volunteer staff.  It also exists to provide program opportunities that a unit cannot conduct by itself (like summer camp and certain activities).  Councils exist to protect the overall organization and members (especially youth) by assuring adherence to policies on things like advancement, life safety and YPT.  Essentially, councils exist to serve units, but units are responsible to be active partners in that process.  Units and their volunteers do not serve or “work for” the councils.

So if a council is not doing there part and supporting units, are units still responsible for supporting the council?

 

2 hours ago, Cburkhardt said:

The single best thing a council does is to work to support units to operate in a quality manner, and it does this via its district executives and volunteer district committees and commissioners. 

What happens if they alienate their district volunteers, causing them to focus on their units, or quit altogether? It has gotten to the point where units are looking for ways to switch to another council.  

2 hours ago, Cburkhardt said:

Putting on events like camporees is really a secondary function of districts and the quality of these activities is always dependent on the quality of the volunteers involved.  District camporees are normally cancelled only when the organizers have done such a poor job that the event is destined to be a fiasco for program and financial reasons – and there is no advantage in allowing a fiasco

The factors you raise indicate there are probably programming, scheduling, planning and financial mistakes being made.

The official reason for canceling there is lack of MBCs  All MBCs, were dropped by my council, even if registered in a unit. Irony of that reason is Council in a newsletter stated they were aware of the problem, and that  MBCs with units are still MBCs while the council is trying to fix the records. And last time I talked to event organizers, only 2 MB classes still needed MBCs, and I could teach one of them in addition to the one I volunteered for. And the event has gone on for over 30 years, so it is not a quality issue.

2 hours ago, Cburkhardt said:

 Consider volunteering to help to help organize your next district camporee to assure a steady organizing and execution process.  Finally, accept that these events are often less-than-perfect.

I was actually suppose to staff this event. And I have helped run events in the past. At least for the past 10+ years, when council intervenes, there are major problems.  I have had events where supplies I requested months in advance were not ordered, and had to be purchases locally, at a much higher price, the day before and of the event. I have had patch orders which used previous event stats to calculate, downsized to the point where enough patches were not ordered, and a second order needed to be made due to complaints. That cost them more money than the original order would have AND alienated volunteers. Worse, I have seen a camporee chief get yelled and cursed out at by a pro. A lot of folks are tired of the abuse.

[acema606]

Our Troop Calendar was for 12 months and the PLC developed it with consideration for fun as well as Journey to Excellence standards, and incorporating merit badge components (bike ride to campout for Camping MB for example.  If a unit finds itself one activity short for a Journey to Excellence standard, due to this short notice cancellation, I truly hope the Council acknowledges its role in that and finds a way to rectify the situation.  

[Jameson76]

22 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

So the question is, Do units support the council, or council supports the units?

Do we raise money to have scouting OR do we have scouting to enable folks to raise money.

Reminder that SCOUTERS in the units have different goals and objectives than the PROFESSIONALS and COUNCIL Scouters

Scouter in the units are there for the youth, to work providing a fun program for the youth, to develop the youth in leadership and maturity, to make sure there is a game with a purpose, to make sure youth are engaged in a rewarding experience.

Professionals are there (IMHO) to raise money to support their compensation which hires more professionals to raise more money for overhead; rinse, lather, repeat.  Looking at the job description for most of our council DE's the focus is on MONEY.  Was at an event celebrating an anniversary for a troop and the Field Director judged success for scouting in the area on money raised.

If the Professional troupe could raise money and not have any actual pesky Scouts, they would be ecstatic.  Just raise money on the nostalgic memory of Scouting in the bygone era.

Our troop does nothing with the council or district, no real value there.  We do attend the camp as it is run well.  Last camporee was maybe 2010 for us as Scouts thought it was lame.  Same for leaders and RT, etc, no value.

I do honestly wonder what the DE for our district does for 40 hours per week.  We really have no idea as we never see him and no value is brought by him.  We had one question about the new recharter process and concerns with UMC, got a really snotty response, so said see ya.

Edited March 8 by Jameson76

[InquisitiveScouter]

6 hours ago, Jameson76 said:

Professionals are there (IMHO) to raise money to support their compensation which hires more professionals to raise more money for overhead; rinse, lather, repeat.  Looking at the job description for most of our council DE's the focus is on MONEY. 

This is what we call the "self-licking ice cream cone"

[Eagle94-A1]

18 hours ago, Jameson76 said:

I do honestly wonder what the DE for our district does for 40 hours per week.  We really have no idea as we never see him and no value is brought by him.  We had one question about the new recharter process and concerns with UMC, got a really snotty response, so said see ya.

 

Once upon a time I knew exactly what a DE did, because I was one. And depending upon time of year, we did a lot more than 40 hours, not including on-call time.  One of my buddies did the calculations, if we were not exempt, we would be making less than the minimum wage of the time. 

However, I am clueless today. All I can think is driving places as the district sizes in my neck of the woods increased dramatically.  My district went from 2 counties, to 7 counties overnite.

Back in the day, the focus was MONEY, MEMBERSHIP MANPOWER, and the order of importance depended upon the SE, and to a lesser degree time of year. Today it seems money.

fundraising was suppose to support the program to keep costs down for the Scouts. Let's face it, camps need year round maintenance, not just in the summer. Folks need certifications to conduct events. Units need recruiting supplies. And yes part of the money paid for the pros, but we were doing things that would be difficult for volunteers to do, i.e. getting into the schools in the day to recruit,  making a 3 hour round trip to drop off supplies for a district event, getting to a district event before gates open to things set up, etc.

However I am seeing camps fall apart and getting sold, volunteers are having to pay to get certified to hold events, units have to make or buy their own recruiting materials, pro's won't  talk to the school system to get into the school, And you do not see pros district events, let alone setting up for it. As for getting supplies, they do not get you enough, requiring  you to buy extra locally (or if patches make a second order costing more money than if they got the original amount), do not get the supplies you requested (causing to to purchase locally at a high cost), or scheduling a conflicting event at the same location (creating chaos because of lack of communication with event organizers, and office staff who also know nothing about the event they put on the calendar).

Membership was also big. Getting into schools, doing the talks, helping organize public events that would attract folks, etc. Heck one of my friends turned his vehicle into a Mobil recruiting  advertisement complete with a filing system in the hatch with not only applications, but other supplies. I cannot remember the last time a SE got into a school to do recruiting.

Manpower, or recruiting adult volunteers not only for units, but the district, was important. I usually combined recruiting unit adults with recruiting Scouts. Recruiting adults for events was more challenging as I had to meet with them on their schedule. I also had to be prepared to answer questions, give advice, etc. And I also had to help at events they were in charge of. 

Today, as I mentioned above, the professionals seem to cause more problems than help. I and other have asked for help with events, with at best little to no help, at worst being ignored, yelled, or cursed out. As I mentioned, at best a lot of good volunteers no longer want to help run district events and focus on their units instead. Worse they quit altogether. Worst, especially those in the business community and are FOS contributors, they quit giving to FOS, and talk to their buddies about the abuse they got who also quit giving. When I calculate what FOS then is worth today, and figure out how much our goals are today, it is frightening. The goal for my area today is 8.8% of what I was raising. membership dropping is part of it. But the bulk of that is a result of business no longer giving. Word does indeed get around.

[PACAN]

There is theory and reality in the OP question.

Question for the former pros here....Did you receive any Customer Service training in your job?   and  Did you receive any "how to "manage" a volunteer workforce" training?

 

Seems like obvious necessary training for a DE to me since your workforce can make or break you.   If the DE has a "I'm in charge" attitude then his volunteers will say "Yes you are", and you will fail quickly.   Servant Leadership is essential.

 

JMHO.

 

[InquisitiveScouter]

Just now, PACAN said:

There is theory and reality in the OP question.

Question for the former pros here....Did you receive any Customer Service training in your job?   and  Did you receive any "how to "manage" a volunteer workforce" training?

 

Seems like obvious necessary training for a DE to me since your workforce can make or break you.   If the DE has a "I'm in charge" attitude then his volunteers will say "Yes you are", and you will fail quickly.   Servant Leadership is essential.

 

JMHO.

 

When I first met our new SE, I asked him, "What is your biggest headache?"

He answered, "When volunteers put on a uniform and think they know more than professionals."

We changed the subject to other matters, and I observed him over the next few months.  His actions confirmed the attitude.  Our SE has a disdain for volunteers who have been in this council and active in Scouting for decades. (I have only been here a relatively short time.)  The people he treats treats well?  Donors $$

I have asked... most of those seasoned Scouters feel the same way about the SE.

Not a great basis for a relationship... 

And most of them DO know more than any of our professionals.

[Eagle94-A1]

1 hour ago, PACAN said:

There is theory and reality in the OP question.

Question for the former pros here....Did you receive any Customer Service training in your job?   and  Did you receive any "how to "manage" a volunteer workforce" training?

Seems like obvious necessary training for a DE to me since your workforce can make or break you.   If the DE has a "I'm in charge" attitude then his volunteers will say "Yes you are", and you will fail quickly.   Servant Leadership is essential.

JMHO.

 

Back in the day, yes.  We were constantly told "you need to multiply ourselves" in regards to volunteer recruitment and customer service. This was at national training.

On the local level, the focus of in-house training was to recruit "yes men" on the district committee so they can do what you tell them.

1 hour ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

When I first met our new SE, I asked him, "What is your biggest headache?"

He answered, "When volunteers put on a uniform and think they know more than professionals.."

...And most of them DO know more than any of our professionals.

Sadly this is truth. I know people who have been asked to take down national announcements from district webpages.  When I had a DE, I told him stuff before the SE did a lot.

 

CLARIFICATION ON OP, when I said council was not going to make enough money, they want a "surplus" budgeted to go to council in addition to the "emergency fund" which if not used goes to council.