Knots vs Ribbons

[Gossmaaf]

There is almost continual debate over how many knots someone should wear, not wear, or even at all.  As a Scouter who was in as a youth, I will say that to younger scouts it matters less, but to older scouts they see those knots as something they can obtain themselves someday.  It helps pull aging out scouts to become scouters to continue service to our organization.  That said, I wonder if the uniform would be slightly less cluttered (for some with excessive knots) as well as ability to tailor for the needs if scouting moved back to the Ribbon Bar concept like Exploring currently does, or as Scouters did from the 20's to about the 50's.  I get that having them can make the uniform more militaristic and less "scout-ish" but it is hard for those with knots as a youth that were hard earned, and knots as an adult (shows you are a resource for others with experience in specific roles) if the bars would clean up the uniform.  

There is the added problem as well for those that get multiple times of the same award, like Den Leader.  Now that National no longer sells the knot devices for several years.  I myself have 6 knots and I already see how getting anymore would add clutter, but do I take off the Den leader Award (great memories with each of my kids), do I take off the Medal of Merit/Eagle/etc... or do I have to move my World Crest up to get it to fit correctly.  If i get the opportunity for a Cubmaster Key or Unit Award of Merit my 3rd row will be almost filled out already, and I'm just started in my time as an Adult Leader (only been doing that for 8 consecutive years, 4 with my own kids).

Playing with the concept somewhat is some ideas i was seeing, looking to the base medals for the appearance capture.  Instead of a separate Ranger Bar devices with (R, T, and Q) could be added to the Venturing Summit Bar to indicate Ranger, Quest, Truth Medals with Summit, again decluttering the uniform but still recognizing skills and honors.

[RememberSchiff]

@Gossmaaf welcome to scouter.com

[InquisitiveScouter]

On 3/1/2024 at 5:14 PM, Gossmaaf said:

There is almost continual debate over how many knots someone should wear, not wear, or even at all.  As a Scouter who was in as a youth, I will say that to younger scouts it matters less, but to older scouts they see those knots as something they can obtain themselves someday.  It helps pull aging out scouts to become scouters to continue service to our organization.  That said, I wonder if the uniform would be slightly less cluttered (for some with excessive knots) as well as ability to tailor for the needs if scouting moved back to the Ribbon Bar concept like Exploring currently does, or as Scouters did from the 20's to about the 50's.  I get that having them can make the uniform more militaristic and less "scout-ish" but it is hard for those with knots as a youth that were hard earned, and knots as an adult (shows you are a resource for others with experience in specific roles) if the bars would clean up the uniform.  

There is the added problem as well for those that get multiple times of the same award, like Den Leader.  Now that National no longer sells the knot devices for several years.  I myself have 6 knots and I already see how getting anymore would add clutter, but do I take off the Den leader Award (great memories with each of my kids), do I take off the Medal of Merit/Eagle/etc... or do I have to move my World Crest up to get it to fit correctly.  If i get the opportunity for a Cubmaster Key or Unit Award of Merit my 3rd row will be almost filled out already, and I'm just started in my time as an Adult Leader (only been doing that for 8 consecutive years, 4 with my own kids).

Playing with the concept somewhat is some ideas i was seeing, looking to the base medals for the appearance capture.  Instead of a separate Ranger Bar devices with (R, T, and Q) could be added to the Venturing Summit Bar to indicate Ranger, Quest, Truth Medals with Summit, again decluttering the uniform but still recognizing skills and honors.

Like the idea, but it looks too much like military then.

BSA probably won't go for it.

[Mrjeff]

I have 23 and I wear them all.  Folks forget that "once official always official."  Those who don't like will just have to not like it.  But, since most of the people who have a bunch of knots are getting old and will die off soon, and many of those knots are no longer available they won't have to not like it for long.  Since uniforms are no longer required and are only encouraged it really doesn't matter.  My knots show a life long journey through scouting.  From my Eagle Scout Knot, Tiger Cub Group Coach Knot, to the Spurgeon Knot and the Sea Badge.  Along the way I influenced two Eagle Scout Sons, 1-Eagle Scout Grandson, Two Law Enforcement Explorer Post Captains, 5- Two Bead Woodbadgers, 3-Three Bead Woodbadgers, 2-Four Bead Woodbagers, 2-Silver Beavers, 1-Heroism Award Recipient, 2-Arrow of Light Scouts, 4-Summer Camp Staffers and several high adventure experiences.  I am proud of my Scouting legacy and those knots remind me of a fantastic journey.  So my opinion is "If you got em, wear em" and be proud of your legacy. 

[SiouxRanger]

I wear my Eagle knot, and none others. (Not even sure what knots I might have earned, though, District Award of Merit, and Silver Beaver, are among them.)

It is all about the youth. Not about me.

I have at least 8 Eagle mentor pins.  (Our troop has had the practice of only having an Eagle presenting a single Mentor Pin.  Eagles one per  I wear none of them.

Those who need or want to know, they know.

[Mrjeff]

Well, its not ALL about the boys or girls.  That sounds nice but if the grown folk aren't enjoying themselves and are miserable, then the kids won't have a good time and will be miserable, too.

[qwazse]

Let’s not have “max tan” and “max color” scouters casting aspersions on one another.

The one thing we can be sure of: whatever insignia suggestions we have, 99% of them will be ignored by BSA.

@Gossmaaf, welcome to the forums!

[InquisitiveScouter]

12 hours ago, SiouxRanger said:

Our troop has had the practice of only having an Eagle presenting a single Mentor Pin.

Why would you not leave this up to the Eagle Scout?

It seems way out of line for adults (I seriously doubt any PLC would have the gall) to dictate such a thing.  Whom an Eagle Scout wishes to recognize as her mentors is really none of the "Troop's" business.

Is there any reasoning behind this you could share?

[InquisitiveScouter]

11 hours ago, Mrjeff said:

Well, its not ALL about the boys or girls.  That sounds nice but if the grown folk aren't enjoying themselves and are miserable, then the kids won't have a good time and will be miserable, too.

Scouting is for adults as well.  Some, with good intentions perhaps, go overboard and neglect the primacy of our mission to youth... but I have seen adults who really blossom in the program. 

Not all adults, when they join us, are "stellar" moral and ethical decision makers.  By our example, through their training, and by exposing them to the eight methods (so, including the Oath and Law among other things), they become even more capable of delivering the promise to youth.

[scoutldr]

We once had a Commissioner show up at a B/G to present the Pack Charter.  I am not exaggerating, he looked like a North Korean General.  He was a long time Scout/Scouter and was wearing EVERY possible award that had ever been presented to him, from the Bobcat pin to his youth MB sash, OA sash, medals, neck ribbons, etc.  

[InquisitiveScouter]

38 minutes ago, scoutldr said:

We once had a Commissioner show up at a B/G to present the Pack Charter.  I am not exaggerating, he looked like a North Korean General.  He was a long time Scout/Scouter and was wearing EVERY possible award that had ever been presented to him, from the Bobcat pin to his youth MB sash, OA sash, medals, neck ribbons, etc.  

His uniform shirt & accoutrements must have weighed 50 pounds 😜 

[mrjohns2]

This fall I’ll have my 3 years in for commissioner and will able to earn the commissioner key (one year short when I had to transition from SM to CC). So, I’ll be at 9 knots. An interesting thing is that all of mine have been earned vs. awarded / honored to received. I’ve only been active with the district for almost 3 years, so not clearly distinguished for things like the district award of merit. If I am ever so lucky to earn or be awarded another knot (say in 2 years I could earn the Doctorate of Commissioner Science), I’ll have to decide to go against the guide to awards and insignia and wear 10 knots. So far, I’m in 100% uniform compliance. 
 

🪢 

[qwazse]

SM just noticed that I was missing from my new shirt. I have them in my older shirt. I had a spare on my old venturing uniform, but I gave that to a Swedish scoutmaster.

[Jameson76]

On 3/6/2024 at 7:12 AM, scoutldr said:

We once had a Commissioner show up at a B/G to present the Pack Charter.  I am not exaggerating, he looked like a North Korean General.  He was a long time Scout/Scouter and was wearing EVERY possible award that had ever been presented to him, from the Bobcat pin to his youth MB sash, OA sash, medals, neck ribbons, etc.  

[InquisitiveScouter]

2 minutes ago, Jameson76 said:

LOL, check out the awards pinned to the pants...