Why Do Scout Leaders Not Respond (and is there anything to be done about it)?

[swilliams]

My immediate family has been involved in scouting since 2012, when my oldest son became a Tiger Scout.  Over the past decade+ I've noticed it getting harder and harder to find adult scout leaders who are responsive to scouts, and in the past two years it's become downright shameful.  Our current SPL has been waiting on a response from our Scoutmaster on an email for 8 days, and this is an email the Scoutmaster asked the SPL to send.  (The scout's mom contacted me to ask what they should do.)  My oldest son emailed his Eagle Coach a week ago asking how he should proceed in following up on his Eagle Project Workbook.  Our district doesn't allow scouts to send in their own proposals to Council, so my son only has the word of this Coach that the workbook was even submitted on the day the Coach said he would do it.  Son finally called Council this morning on his own.  He was told, "Give us 15 minutes and we'll call you back."  Guess who hasn't received a phone call?  Merit badge counselors who don't respond for weeks on end, if ever are the norm.  We're on our fourth counselor for Camping - the requirements have been done for months, but my younger son and one other scout from our troop still haven't been able to get signed off and it's holding them back from Star rank.

Older son turns 18 in three and a half months and has been working on his Eagle Project for over a year.  (First two proposals fell apart due to state land restrictions and soil contamination.)  We are starting to panic.  

What can be done?  Nothing?  Chalk it up to life lessons?  We are SO frustrated.  Younger son is ready to call it quits, and I really can't blame him.  Please, any help or advice we can get would not only be appreciated, but is desperately needed.  

[skeptic]

If this is an accurate comment, it IS a poor and, to me, unfathomable situation.  Obviously, we are only seeing part of the issue, but I would hope there may be other adults in the shared district that might work to help.  While this Forum might offer some aid, you may find more by reviewing FB for local district and council pages, and maybe nearby units.  I am fairly confident that someone might respond with a post to one of those, though I could be wrong.  Good luck, and please look beyond your own unit for possible aid.  And now, I need to respond to a youth on a merit badge we began last year.  

[Eagle1993]

Usually when I don't respond timely to a scout, either a text cc to parent or a short email reminder helps.  Perhaps just ask the SM and coach if there are other methods of communication that would work.  If that doesn't work, fully agree about reaching out beyond your unit.

I just checked my email .. OA elections, summer camp planning and updates, two eagle scout projects, troop meeting prep and an eagle scout SM conference...

oh, and a job, sick pet, home repairs, wife, etc. 😀

 

[swilliams]

On 2/16/2024 at 12:20 PM, skeptic said:

If this is an accurate comment, it IS a poor and, to me, unfathomable situation.  Obviously, we are only seeing part of the issue, but I would hope there may be other adults in the shared district that might work to help.  While this Forum might offer some aid, you may find more by reviewing FB for local district and council pages, and maybe nearby units.  I am fairly confident that someone might respond with a post to one of those, though I could be wrong.  Good luck, and please look beyond your own unit for possible aid.  And now, I need to respond to a youth on a merit badge we began last year.  

One of the previous MB counselors we reached out to is no longer a counselor, unbeknownst to him.  Apparently Council only wants each counselor to do three MBs.  He emailed the Merit Badge Dean last week.  Hasn't gotten a response.  We (since my kids don't have a Facebook account) reached out to someone online on the 16th.  Got an immediate response, but then the person didn't send their BSA number or town so they could be connected on Scoutbook.  I asked twice over the last two days.  I can see with Messenger that the person has seen the message.  GRRRR!!!  Trying a second person from Facebook.

On the Eagle Project front...  my son called Council back.  This time he got a response right away, but he found out that Council doesn't have his workbook.  It's with our District Advancement Chair.  Son reached out to this person via email (and cc'd the Eagle Coach) on the 16th.  He finally got a response from the Eagle Coach saying "great that you emailed Mr. F", but hasn't heard from Mr. F.  

SPL has still not received a response from the Scoutmaster.

I know that we're all busy.  I know that it's easy to miss things.  But this is SO much harder than it ought to be and, IMHO, is only teaching them the wrong lessons.  It teaches them it's okay as an adult to ignore kids.  It's teaching my youngest that the effort he needs to put in for a single merit badge is beyond what he is willing to do, and the idea of going through this 13 more times is just too much.  It's teaching them that adult scouters don't have the same set of rules for themselves that they do for the scouts.  

Sorry for the rant.  It's heartbreaking to me to see that my younger one probably isn't going to stay in scouting.  (Not solely because of this.  Our Troop has some extreme issues as well.)

[InquisitiveScouter]

1 hour ago, swilliams said:

Apparently Council only wants each counselor to do three MBs. 

Cutting off their nose in spite of their face...

I see you are in Central NJ.  DM me, please.

If we are close enough, and you are willing, you can have your Scout multiple into our unit.  We can get that proposal moved in quick time...

I also have some bandwidth available and extensive contacts.  Let me know what MB's?  (Some can be done entirely over Zoom, if your Scout has done his/her homework.)

Always remember... it's the adults that ruin Scouting 😜

[scoutldr]

I can't help but think this is a societal problem.  I have work I need done and cash in hand for some handyman work.  Think I can get anyone to show any interest?  My neighbor did have someone working on his house, so I went over and talked to him to do some floor repair.  He actually came over and looked at the job, acted interested and promised to email me an estimate the next day.  I didn't really need an estimate at this point, I was ready to pay whatever he said, since in two years, it's the first time anyone has bothered to look at it.  Well, it's been 2 weeks.  Nothing.  I realize it's not a big job, but it's beyond my physical capabilities now.  Facebook is full of complaints of the same nature.  People won't return your calls.  If they do call, they don't show up when they say they will.  I don't know what the solution is.

[swilliams]

7 minutes ago, scoutldr said:

I can't help but think this is a societal problem.  I have work I need done and cash in hand for some handyman work.  Think I can get anyone to show any interest?  My neighbor did have someone working on his house, so I went over and talked to him to do some floor repair.  He actually came over and looked at the job, acted interested and promised to email me an estimate the next day.  I didn't really need an estimate at this point, I was ready to pay whatever he said, since in two years, it's the first time anyone has bothered to look at it.  Well, it's been 2 weeks.  Nothing.  I realize it's not a big job, but it's beyond my physical capabilities now.  Facebook is full of complaints of the same nature.  People won't return your calls.  If they do call, they don't show up when they say they will.  I don't know what the solution is.

That's a good point.  I've been waiting for a roofing company to come give me an estimate.  Called again Friday to see what happened to the first work order that no one ever responded to.  We have one estimate, but the quote was $12,900 for our little 3 bedroom, 1 bath ranch.  Guess our intersecting roofline and the dormer in the attic are just too much work.   And now I've just done something I complain about all the time as a seamstress....  someone questioning the price I charge for my work.  🤣

[InquisitiveScouter]

1 hour ago, scoutldr said:

I can't help but think this is a societal problem.  I have work I need done and cash in hand for some handyman work.  Think I can get anyone to show any interest?  My neighbor did have someone working on his house, so I went over and talked to him to do some floor repair.  He actually came over and looked at the job, acted interested and promised to email me an estimate the next day.  I didn't really need an estimate at this point, I was ready to pay whatever he said, since in two years, it's the first time anyone has bothered to look at it.  Well, it's been 2 weeks.  Nothing.  I realize it's not a big job, but it's beyond my physical capabilities now.  Facebook is full of complaints of the same nature.  People won't return your calls.  If they do call, they don't show up when they say they will.  I don't know what the solution is.

And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

1 hour ago, swilliams said:

That's a good point.  I've been waiting for a roofing company to come give me an estimate.  Called again Friday to see what happened to the first work order that no one ever responded to.  We have one estimate, but the quote was $12,900 for our little 3 bedroom, 1 bath ranch.  Guess our intersecting roofline and the dormer in the attic are just too much work.   And now I've just done something I complain about all the time as a seamstress....  someone questioning the price I charge for my work.  🤣

$10K - $15K is a good range for houses in your area...

[RememberSchiff]

1 hour ago, scoutldr said:

I can't help but think this is a societal problem.  I have work I need done and cash in hand for some handyman work.  Think I can get anyone to show any interest?  My neighbor did have someone working on his house, so I went over and talked to him to do some floor repair.  He actually came over and looked at the job, acted interested and promised to email me an estimate the next day.  I didn't really need an estimate at this point, I was ready to pay whatever he said, since in two years, it's the first time anyone has bothered to look at it.  Well, it's been 2 weeks.  Nothing.  I realize it's not a big job, but it's beyond my physical capabilities now.  Facebook is full of complaints of the same nature.  People won't return your calls.  If they do call, they don't show up when they say they will.  I don't know what the solution is.

Similar experiences here, so I gave up waiting and I am renovating our first floor bath slooowly myself amid other sudden home repair interruptions.

[swilliams]

Oh boy. Son just got an email from the district advancement chair. He says he never got my son’s workbook. 

Edited February 19 by swilliams
Formatting

[swilliams]

So as long as I'm in "rant" mode....  I'm SO angry right now.  Guide to Advancement says you can't add requirements beyond what National states.  GTA also is clear that scouts are not REQUIRED to use a coach, and it certainly doesn't say anything about a scout not being able to submit his own Eagle Project Workbook.  I started to fight this before, but my son asked me to just 'go along with it' and not make waves, so I did.  But telling a scout that they are self-sufficient, capable young men and women and that Scouts is scout-led, then telling them that an adult has to submit the workbook on their behalf, is just wrong and stupid.

Now over a month of precious time has been wasted.  And for what?  WHAT is this teaching our kids?!  Seriously.  I'm a little over-emotional right now, but I honestly feel like crying.  If you set out to purposely destroy a kid's faith in scouting, you couldn't do a better job than this.

I'm sorry.  I'm sure this isn't scout-like.

[Eagle1993]

Hope it doesn't come to this, but you have the option to file for an extension.  No guarantees, but you may have a valid argument.

GTA-11.2.0.0-form-2021 (1).pdf

[SSScout]

As a retired county employee, union rep, home owner who needs a new roof and present Scout Leader,  I recognize and share your pain.  A Scout is trustworthy. But to mis-quote a past president, A Scout should verify and remind.... alot.  

ALWAYS make copies of reports.  Include many folks in the negotiations.  Make three contacts, then move on to the COMPLAINT stage.  

Cultivate the good contractors. Pass on recommendations. Remember that everyone needs to "make a living", that many workers get the job done quicker (usually) rather than one person doing everything.  That said, yeah, if the fellow shows up in a beat up panel truck or a new Escalade,  which one appeals to you?  

Eagle work books and proposals...   Phone calls, emails, FBmessage,  knock on door,  one does what one must, but ALWAYS encourage and allow that person to "do the right thing". 

Some years ago, the Scoutson of a friend (really nice kid, our Scout was two years behind him)  completed everything,  application filled out, project approved,  handed everything in, time before 18th birthday not a problem.  District Advancement Chair, admittedly a stickler for detail, tells Scout he filled out an obsolete application, he needs to redo the application on the NEW up-to-date application. Scout parenthetically throws up his hands, says in essence  "to hell with this all", and goes off to join the Air Force.  No one can convince him otherwise.  Last report, he is a Master Sargent in Australia.... 

Good luck, we hope and pray your son gets thru his Eagle and your roof gets replaced.  

Edited February 19 by SSScout

[InquisitiveScouter]

@swilliams, sent you DM as well, but for the benefit of others:

If he has all signatures, have him email the Workbook (with pdf of signature page) directly to the Council or District Project Approval Representative.  Contact info on proposal page B.

Give a brief explanation... something like Eagle Project Coach made a commitment to submit on such-and-such a date, but this has not happened.  Ask for a reply email to acknowledge receipt.

He has off from school today for the holiday, right?

When he sends it, have him cc his SM and Unit Advancement Chair.  (again, see contact info page.)

And just make sure you are holding on to any email history sent.  This will buy him extension time, if needed.

Any extension granted may only cover time lost since he submitted his proposal to Eagle Project Coach.  His other impediments on previous projects will probably not carry any weight.

-----------------

Also, some process notes... "Council" should not see his workbook until after project is complete (even if that is their process.)  This is all in the hands of volunteers at this point.  Specifically, the Council or District Project Approval Representative, who is most likely a volunteer.

-------------------

Have a heart to heart with your son, and make sure he is committed to this.  It is worth doing!  If he gives up, he will regret it for the rest of his life, and be bitter about the people who have let him down thus far.  Convince him to go down fighting.

If he does have today off from school, after his sending in the Workbook, turn him to his Merit Badges.  He has a lot to do! 

Edited February 19 by InquisitiveScouter

[InquisitiveScouter]

1 hour ago, SSScout said:

District Advancement Chair, admittedly a stickler for detail, tells Scout he filled out an obsolete application, he needs to redo the application on the NEW up-to-date application. Scout parenthetically throws up his hands, says in essence  "to hell with this all", and goes off to join the Air Force.  No one can convince him otherwise.  Last report, he is a Master Sargent in Australia.... 

If you have records for all this, we can submit an appeal to National and get this Master Sergeant his Eagle Award.  Mostly, we would need the application.

If he did, in fact, have his requirements complete before 18, National will award the Eagle.  They are not usually martinets about the date of a form...

You willing??