Best practices for backpacking troops

[Eagledad]

On 2/13/2024 at 6:47 PM, George said:

@Eagledad Sorry to ping you, but I've seen you mention in other posts that you're associated with a backpacking troop. I would be grateful for your thoughts!

Hi George. I haven't read the thread thoroughly, so you will probably want to ask questions after my post.

After looking back, it was the scouts who drove the program toward a backpacking troop. When we took over the broken program, we adults had dreams of being the best-looking troop in the district. Based on the three of us adults youth experience who took over the program, the best looking included a Camp[/Patrol Box and a propane tank with a tree where the stove and lantern. However, long story short, the scouts hated all that stuff. We are a boy run troop, so the boys changed us to a backpacking troop and never looked back. Like I said, long story short.

Really, a backpacking troop is just a troop that uses minimal equipment. Each patrol had a backpacking duel burner stove, tarp, a plastic tub for food, and assorted accessories that I don't remember. The equipment the patrols was also used for troop campouts is used for high-adventure back county trips. The key is getting good equipment that will put up with the monthly abuse of being left outside in the elements. Our stove of choice was the Peak1 Xpedition duel burner stove. I don't know if Peak1 still sells it, but while a little heavy, it was hardy and reliable. One patrol one morning found their stove underwater in a puddle from the previous night's rain, They let the stove dry out and it worked like new.

I can't think of any disadvantages to going to a minimal equipment program. The advantages are that the patrols are more independent. The quartermaster could keep most of the equipment at his house if they choose. We encourage each patrol to arrange their own transportation to campouts including their gear instead of using the troop trailer. They could use the trailer if needed, but they had to arrange it with the Troop Quartermaster. The intention was for each patrol to independently plan travel arrangements for each outing.  That was difficult with patrol boxes and propane trees. Now a patrol was able to takeoff on their anytime they wanted.

The patrol got used to cooking on the ground. Several of the scouts in all the patrols started purchasing their own personal backpacking tents. The troop had plenty of tents, but as I said, the independent mentality started driving some of the decisions. And owning some of their own gear was fun. 

I thought the switch from an elite car camping program to a minimal equipment program would be slow and painful, but I was wrong. It was almost instant. No complaints, no spool-up time really. Young boys adapt quickly. The adults kept their patrol box. We hate change. So we didn't. 

I believe minimal equipment also helps in making the scouts better backwoodsmen. I remember on one High Adventure backpacking trek our guide was amazed that we broke camp in 15 minutes. He said it usually takes crews 1-hour minimum. I told him they do this every month. They are used to cooking on the ground, using mostly gear from the backpacks (sort of) and packing up. 

My focus is on character growth and changing to a backpacking program helped that goal. 

Now let me add, that while the patrols took the basic patrol equipment, the troop trailer still carried shovels, axes, and Dutch ovens if the patrol needed them. But, they didn't use them as much as you would think. They were truly turning into a minimal backpacking patrol.

While the troop only did a couple of short backpacking trips a year, we average about 3 to 4 high adventure backpacking and canoeing trips a year. So scouts that wanted true backwoods adventure had plenty of opportunity. And as I said, the crews used the patrol equipment for the treks, so there wasn't much of an experience change in that part. Really, a trek is just an intense physical patrol method experience. Just like summer camp, the scouts come back different, more mature.

We had about 100 scouts at the time.

Barry

 

Edited February 17 by Eagledad

[swilliams]

Along these same lines, is backpacking considered high adventure?  Or can it be?  If it's not high adventure in and of itself, are there added components that would place it in that category?

[InquisitiveScouter]

"High Adventure" is whatever your Scouts say it is 😜

Backpacking by itself is not.  But backpacking 15 miles over a weekend on the Appalachian Trail (AT) might be HA for your 13 year old's who are new to the experience.

It might have to be backpacking 50 miles on the AT over 5 days and four nights for your older Scouts to say it is HA. 

If your Scouts want a High Adventure experience, let them help define what it means to them.

[swilliams]

On 3/11/2024 at 2:42 PM, InquisitiveScouter said:

"High Adventure" is whatever your Scouts say it is 😜

Backpacking by itself is not.  But backpacking 15 miles over a weekend on the Appalachian Trail (AT) might be HA for your 13 year old's who are new to the experience.

It might have to be backpacking 50 miles on the AT over 5 days and four nights for your older Scouts to say it is HA. 

If your Scouts want a High Adventure experience, let them help define what it means to them.

Thank you!  That's sort of why I was asking.  Our older scouts want to do an AT backpacking trip in two weeks.  Delaware Water Gap to at least Camp NoBeBoSco but more likely to Crater Lake.  3.6 miles Friday evening to the Backpacker campsite.  9.1 the second day.  2.0 Sunday morning.  Worried that might be too much for our Webelos who are crossing over tonight and have never backpacked.  Younger son suggested making it "high adventure" and limiting it to scouts 14 and older.  

I'm a little surprised younger son wants to go.  My boys went to Philmont last summer.  The scouts narrowly voted to do one of the hardest treks available: ended up being just over 100 miles, summiting both Tooth of Time and Baldy.  Little time for program.  Then the scouts who had voted for this one backed out of the trip, lol.  When he came home, son said he was never backpacking again.  Looks like he has the bug, though.

[DannyG]

5 minutes ago, swilliams said:

Our older scouts want to do an AT backpacking trip in two weeks.  Delaware Water Gap to at least Camp NoBeBoSco but more likely to Crater Lake.  3.6 miles Friday evening to the Backpacker campsite.  9.1 the second day.  2.0 Sunday morning.  Worried that might be too much for our Webelos who are crossing over tonight and have never backpacked.  Younger son suggested making it "high adventure" and limiting it to scouts 14 and older.  

I agree. It's likely too much for the new crossovers with little experience backpacking. How does your troop define high adventure, and the limits? I trust scouts know who is ready and who isn't. Instead of a strict age limit, I would suggest First-Class rank or Scoutmaster approval.

[InquisitiveScouter]

3 minutes ago, swilliams said:

Thank you!  That's sort of why I was asking.  Our older scouts want to do an AT backpacking trip in two weeks.  Delaware Water Gap to at least Camp NoBeBoSco but more likely to Crater Lake.  3.6 miles Friday evening to the Backpacker campsite.  9.1 the second day.  2.0 Sunday morning.  Worried that might be too much for our Webelos who are crossing over tonight and have never backpacked.  Younger son suggested making it "high adventure" and limiting it to scouts 14 and older.  

I'm a little surprised younger son wants to go.  My boys went to Philmont last summer.  The scouts narrowly voted to do one of the hardest treks available: ended up being just over 100 miles, summiting both Tooth of Time and Baldy.  Little time for program.  Then the scouts who had voted for this one backed out of the trip, lol.  When he came home, son said he was never backpacking again.  Looks like he has the bug, though.

I have done that section of the AT!

This may not too much for WEBELOS who have never backpacked, if you limit their pack weight by having a good gear shakedown, and limit their weight to about 25% of their body weight.  This means others may have to help carry gear.

Or, you could let them join you for just one night on the trail!  Have them backpack up with you to the first campsite.  In the morning, they pack up and go back down to trailhead.  This means you'd need two more adults, but they could ferry your cars to Crater Lake, and save you that logistical pain on the first day.

There's a million ways to skin that cat. 

And, are you using this tool with layers?

https://nps.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=6298c848ba2a490588b7f6d25453e4e0

 

[swilliams]

On 3/15/2024 at 9:25 AM, InquisitiveScouter said:

I have done that section of the AT!

This may not too much for WEBELOS who have never backpacked, if you limit their pack weight by having a good gear shakedown, and limit their weight to about 25% of their body weight.  This means others may have to help carry gear.

Or, you could let them join you for just one night on the trail!  Have them backpack up with you to the first campsite.  In the morning, they pack up and go back down to trailhead.  This means you'd need two more adults, but they could ferry your cars to Crater Lake, and save you that logistical pain on the first day.

There's a million ways to skin that cat. 

And, are you using this tool with layers?

https://nps.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=6298c848ba2a490588b7f6d25453e4e0

 

Isn't Raccoon Ridge the best spot?  When it's just my daughter and I we stealth camp in a little grassy spot just south of where the ridge opens up to the views. 

I use AllTrails, plus I have paper maps of the AT from Swatara Gap in PA all the way through the Berkshires.  That link is very cool, though.  Going to take a closer look at it after dinner.