Best practices for backpacking troops

[George]

For those of you who are or were volunteers with troops that describe themselves as a "backpacking troop," what best practices can you share? What defines a backpacking troop, anyway? How does your troop prepare recent crossovers and other young/small/inexperienced Scouts for backpacking? How many backpacking trips does your troop typically do each year (and what do you do the rest of the year)? If you converted your troop to backpacking, what challenges did you have to overcome? In your experience, how does backpacking support the patrol method?

Thanks in advance for your insights!

Edited February 13 by George

[KublaiKen]

My Troop as a youth backpacked on the AT and elsewhere in the Blue Ridge Mountains. We made sure to hike on alternate sides of the mountains each day so that one leg didn't grow longer than the other.

[InquisitiveScouter]

My first troop was a backpacking troop.  We had about 25 Scouts.  At meetings, we would run one mile for conditioning.  Most weekend trips were 15 or 20-milers done as loops.  We would drive to a campsite, or trailhead on Friday night and camp nearby, usually within a mile or two.  Ten+ miles on Saturday, then finish off the rest on Sunday to where the vehicles were.

We were organized as patrols at the Troop meetings, but it was every man for himself on the trail.  Bring all your own gear and food.  It made things really easy for the group, but there was no patrol method.  Had a great time and lots of adventures.

I moved away for about two years. New troop was all patrol method. Very different.  No backpacking.  I always felt k8nd of out of place.

When we moved back, the first Troop was down to about 7 Scouts.  No new Scouts had come to the Troop.  I think it was because the backpacking-only thing was not a big draw.  Still had lots of fun and adventures.  When we got a new SM, he brought in Patrol method.  Another local troop folded, and all their Scouts came to us.  Completely changed the flavor, but it was more Scouting. 

One trick ponies don't work out well, IMO.  I have seen several troops like that wither away across the years.

Edited February 13 by InquisitiveScouter

[SiouxRanger]

52 minutes ago, KublaiKen said:

My Troop as a youth backpacked on the AT and elsewhere in the Blue Ridge Mountains. We made sure to hike on alternate sides of the mountains each day so that one leg didn't grow longer than the other.

Oh no! I wrote a whole book, "My Circling Hiking Life." Always ended up where I started…

[SiouxRanger]

And these are just comments, Eagle, summer camp staff (2x), Philmont Ranger (4x), Philmont Trek Advisor (4x)…

52 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

At meetings, we would run one mile for conditioning.

Scouts headed for Philmont treks needed NO training-they are just too resilient at that age.  That being said, there might be a scout on the fringe of fit-that issue needs attention. 

52 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Most weekend trips were 15 or 20-milers done as loops.

"Loops" are by far the most logistically feasible. Do loops.

52 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

but it was every man for himself on the trail.  Bring all your own gear and food. 

Not efficient at all.  Carefully plan food, carefully package food into 2 or 4 person portions, just like Philmont has done for decades. (On the Ranger Staff at Philmont some decades ago, I was told by the head of Philmont's camping commissary that Philmont was the second largest user of dehydrated food behind only the U.S. Army.

And what works for the U.S. Army, and Philmont should at least be your starting point.

And that is not to mention stoves, pots, pans, etc. Is every scout bringing a stove, fuel, pots and pans?  Not clear from the post.

At Philmont, a single stove, fuel bottle or two (be prepared), and a single set of pots serves a crew of 12, and drastically lowers the weight everyone carries.

If you have not read "The Complete Walker" by Colin Fletcher, then you have No business planning anything backpacking. (I have all 4 versions and have read all of them.)

Colin cut half the handle off his toothbrush, and the labels off his underwear. To save weight.

ON TO OTHER RELEVANT COMMENTS:

 A "backpacking troop" has made a commitment to have minimal and lightweight gear.

This is EXPENSIVE.

My one person Big Agnes Copper Spur UL 1 tent cost $326.  At a discount of about $100. Cut over a pound and a half off my prior tent, a North Face Canyonlands (which I loved). The Copper Spur about 1 lb 8 ounces.

My Marmot down sleeping bag, 900 down, cut about a pound and a half off my prior bag, but cost about $400.

All of my unit's stoves and fuel bottles I own.  The unit uses them for free.  I simply want to KNOW how those stoves have been used, and I can only do that if I own them, and maintain them.  For two treks at Philmont, 2 MSR Dragonfly stoves, repair kits, fuel bottles, about $540.

MSR stoves-I only use and recommend the Dragonfly model. Immeasurably more stable than all the other MSR models. More costly.  So, you "blow up" dinner because you have an unstable stove, having saved $20 on the stove purchase. "Hello to Hunger." (In was given an MSR Whisperlite stove once-upon a brief test, I immediately put it on the trash heap.)

There is some group, name escapes me, motto was something along the lines of "BE PREPARED."

I own all the water purifier systems for my troop for the same reason. And water purifiers are much more susceptible to failure than stoves.

BUT, a failed water purifier will make you and the whole crew sick, (maybe deathly so) whereas a failed stove only provides cold macaroni and cheese.

And, at least for use at Philmont, the commercially available water purifier systems are highly deficient. I designed my own system and it worked fine.

If you want further information on that, just post here asking.

I guess, this is enough for now.

If you have any other questions, just post.

 

Edited February 13 by SiouxRanger

[Navybone]

We probably do not qualify as a backpacking troop, but we alternate between car camping and backpacking (4-5 backpacking trips a year).  Started this about 6 years ago, COVID delayed it a bit. The younger/new scouts tend to be apprehensive about backpacking, and parents about the cost.   We start with shorter, smaller overnights, do hikes with packs, talk about what to pack often (and that the scouts need to pack their bag, not their parent).  As the year goes, build up for longer trips, almost all the younger scouts love it and get excited. Over the summer, we do multi night trips in the area or a national forest in the area.  This year a group is going to Philmont, first time in who knows how long (We lost out on another high adventure recently due to COVID). 

The annual cyclical aspect helps get the newer scouts up to speed, and provides older scouts the opportunity to step up and take leadership.  You know you have it when you see the older scouts stepping in to help the younger scouts who are struggling.  It is awesome to see.

After a year or two, the scouts all have their owns stoves and water purifiers (issue becomes telling them all not to bring them).   We try to pass down backpacks as the scouts grow taller. 

I am sure that other troops do more and longer, but this works for our troop of about 18.  Not over the top where it scares people away, but not the eagle mill that the troop was 6 years ago where one of the challenges for the scouts was the nights camping for camping merit badge. We are not perfect, and the degree and success of the patrol method ebbs and flows based on the SPL.  Most of the scouts are very active in other programs (sports, music, etc), so there is a balance, and this works for us.  

Good luck. 

[DuctTape]

If trying to convert a car camping troop into a backpacking troop (or just trying to get them to plan ahead better), try this:

-Always pack a backpack for the trip. Patrol gear & food split up among patrol and packed in backpack.

-Trailer is used to transport packed gear only. (We never brought the trailer as it was only a storage shed).

-Park cars some distance from campsite, cars get locked and not visited during trip. (If at public campground, this is still possible using main lot).

-Patrols hike (even if only a quarter mile) to their campsite as a patrol.

Starting with the above as a baseline for ALL camping trips, one can see how the  transition to longer backpacking trips is a gentler step.

 

 

[Jameson76]

Our troop does maybe 2 / 3 backpacking outings each year.  Also we do some outings that are not exactly car camping and not exactly backpacking, maybe the campsite is less than mile from the cars.  Otherwise we are the typical Everest siege camping with trailers and sherpas, plus elephants to setup the main circus tent in camping area.  The buzz of generators and chainsaws echo through the morning air.

Back to the backpacking question on preparing and how does it work - 

• Maybe 2 actual backpacking trips per year, varying lengths of 6 - 12 miles
• Each Scout handles their own meals / food
• We have communal backpacking stoves and other "crew" gear for the trip
• The crew gear is divided up amongst the scouts
• Each trip we practice with the stoves, discuss how to purify water, and other backpack items
• Weigh packs at the trailhead and discuss what can be left / is not really needed
• Lot of hammocking on the trail

Suggestions that have worked for us

• Have a shorter one early on for the newer Scouts
• Have some instruction periods during meetings on basics
• Pick you treks based on ability, same with routes, there is one we like where we camp on a mountain top, one route up is really steep, there is another route that goes around and series of switchbacks up, we take the longer way up and the steeper descent
• Have group up points on the map, either road / stream crossings, mile markers, some specific points so the slower scouts can catch up and you are not strung out for a mile or so
• Reminder that uphill is slow and can be whiney, downhill can be slippery with gravity working against you

[DannyG]

I wouldn't call our troop a backpacking troop. But we do have a large troop and multiple patrols, so we plan a variety of trips. There is a Venture Patrol for the older, experienced scouts who want to backpack and go on high adventure. Down to first-year patrols who are just getting their feet wet at weekend camps and summer camp. The younger scouts see and hear what the older Venture scouts are doing. So they move up to a Venture Patrol when they are ready to go on high adventure. Our troop books a Philmont trip every couple of years. We start training a year prior to condition those scouts for the trip. That's when the Venture Patrol starts to focus on backpacking skills.

[George]

@Eagledad Sorry to ping you, but I've seen you mention in other posts that you're associated with a backpacking troop. I would be grateful for your thoughts!

[InquisitiveScouter]

- What best practices can you share?  Planning! Planning! Planning!  And let the PLC decide what they want to do.  Adults should zip it.  You are there for health and safety 😜 

- What defines a backpacking troop, anyway?  Up to you!  A Troop "ought" to be camping every month (12 times a year.)  JTE Gold level asks you to have 9 short term and 1 long term camp (so 10 times).  I would define a "backpacking troop" as one that does at least half its outings as backpacking... so 5 or 6 times a year. 

- How does your troop prepare recent crossovers and other young/small/inexperienced Scouts for backpacking?  We split up and have about 4 patrol outings per year in the troop program,  Older Scouts are more likely to choose backpacking.  We do 15-20 milers.  We also shoot for one long term backpacking trip per year... 5 days, 4 nights, 50-miler.  We do not encourage young/small/inexperienced to do backpacking.  But neither do we discourage.  It's simply a question of weight ratios! (nod to Monty Python) Scouts need to bring between 25-35 pounds of gear/food/water, depending on length of trip and weather conditions.  Beginners should stay about 25% of their weight.  So, a Scout ought to be around 100 pounds before they start backpacking.  Even then, other Scouts usually wind up carrying some of their gear, or at least much of their share of patrol gear.  So, we do some training outings, day only.  Show up in the morning for a gear shakedown, then carry a full pack for a day hike.  If a Scout has issues, maybe he needs to wait before going backpacking.  Don't set them up to be miserable. Scouts will try to take on much more than they can handle, so let them learn before throwing them in the back woods.   

How many backpacking trips does your troop typically do each year (and what do you do the rest of the year)? 3, with one long term trip, IF that is what the PLC (or Patrol) has decided to do.  Rest of the year, we do whatever the PLC has picked for program in their Annual Planning Conference.  THIS IS THE WAY!

If you converted your troop to backpacking, what challenges did you have to overcome?  Our PLC did not "convert", but they did add a great deal more backpacking over the last four years.  Gear (for Patrols) has been the issue.

In your experience, how does backpacking support the patrol method?  Every person for himself is not Scouting.  You may have a great backpacking trip, but if you are not using the Patrol Method, you are not Scouting.  Doing it by Patrols is more difficult... Patrol plans their budget and menu, shops for the food.  Meets ahead of time to divide and pre-package, where needed.  Two white gas stoves per patrol.  One tent per two Scouts,.  Bear bags or bear canisters, depending on destination requirements.  Patrol first aid kit.  One water filter and tablets as a back up... we boil all water.  Simply put, it is the only way to be sure you kill everything.  (this one will draw fire....) https://www.cdc.gov/healthywater/pdf/drinking/Backcountry_Water_Treatment-508.pdf

Lots more to add... but I gotta do some chores!

Edited February 14 by InquisitiveScouter

[DuctTape]

22 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

- What best practices can you share?  Planning! Planning! Planning!  And let the PLC decide what they want to do.  Adults should zip it.  You are there for health and safety 😜 

- What defines a backpacking troop, anyway?  Up to you!  A Troop "ought" to be camping every month (12 times a year.)  JTE Gold level asks you to have 9 short term and 1 long term camp (so 10 times).  I would define a "backpacking troop" as one that does at least half its outings as backpacking... so 5 or 6 times a year. 

- How does your troop prepare recent crossovers and other young/small/inexperienced Scouts for backpacking?  We split up and have about 4 patrol outings per year in the troop program,  Older Scouts are more likely to choose backpacking.  We do 15-20 milers.  We also shoot for one long term backpacking trip per year... 5 days, 4 nights, 50-miler.  We do not encourage young/small/inexperienced to do backpacking.  But neither do we discourage.  It's simply a question of weight ratios! (nod to Monty Python) Scouts need to bring between 25-35 pounds of gear/food/water, depending on length of trip and weather conditions.  Beginners should stay about 25% of their weight.  So, a Scout ought to be around 100 pounds before they start backpacking.  Even then, other Scouts usually wind up carrying some of their gear, or at least much of their share of patrol gear.  So, we do some training outings, day only.  Show up in the morning for a gear shakedown, then carry a full pack for a day hike.  If a Scout has issues, maybe he needs to wait before going backpacking.  Don't set them up to be miserable. Scouts will try to take on much more than they can handle, so let them learn before throwing them in the back woods.   

How many backpacking trips does your troop typically do each year (and what do you do the rest of the year)? 3, with one long term trip, IF that is what the PLC (or Patrol) has decided to do.  Rest of the year, we do whatever the PLC has picked for program in their Annual Planning Conference.  THIS IS THE WAY!

If you converted your troop to backpacking, what challenges did you have to overcome?  Our PLC did not "convert", but they did add a great deal more backpacking over the last four years.  Gear (for Patrols) has been the issue.

In your experience, how does backpacking support the patrol method?  Every person for himself is not Scouting.  You may have a great backpacking trip, but if you are not using the Patrol Method, you are not Scouting.  Doing it by Patrols is more difficult... Patrol plans their budget and menu, shops for the food.  Meets ahead of time to divide and pre-package, where needed.  Two white gas stoves per patrol.  One tent per two Scouts,.  Bear bags or bear canisters, depending on destination requirements.  Patrol first aid kit.  One water filter and tablets as a back up... we boil all water.  Simply put, it is the only way to be sure you kill everything.  (this one will draw fire....) https://www.cdc.gov/healthywater/pdf/drinking/Backcountry_Water_Treatment-508.pdf

Lots more to add... but I gotta do some chores!

@InquisitiveScouterfor National Commissioner! 

[InquisitiveScouter]

29 minutes ago, DuctTape said:

@InquisitiveScouterfor National Commissioner! 

No, brother... Chief Scout of the USA!

With you as National Commissioner, we stand a good chance to turn this ship to a better course!

[George]

On 2/13/2024 at 8:28 PM, InquisitiveScouter said:

We split up and have about 4 patrol outings per year in the troop program,  Older Scouts are more likely to choose backpacking.  We do 15-20 milers.  We also shoot for one long term backpacking trip per year... 5 days, 4 nights, 50-miler.  We do not encourage young/small/inexperienced to do backpacking.  But neither do we discourage. 

Thanks for all your insights. I wanted to follow up on the above. Does your troop used mixed-age/traditional patrols? Assuming the answer is yes, when your patrols choose backpacking, do the young/small/inexperienced patrol members stay behind or do the older Scouts help them along? Thanks again!

[InquisitiveScouter]

2 minutes ago, George said:

Thanks for all your insights. I wanted to follow up on the above. Does your troop used mixed-age/traditional patrols? Assuming the answer is yes, when your patrols choose backpacking, do the young/small/inexperienced patrol members stay behind or do the older Scouts help them along? Thanks again!

No.  We group patrols by age.  If younger ones want to join a backpacking trip, we have to factor in the two-years in age difference rule for tenting.  Otherwise, elders help the juniors.  If a small group, we do not allow for "strung out" backpacking.  Put the slower paced up front.

If you have eight or more, split into two crews.  Recommend not backpacking with more than 12.  Gaggle, noise, space, courtesy, impact, etc...

If you are lucky enough to have more than twelve (and four adults), split into groups that go opposite directions on a loop.  High fives when you pass each other out on the trail...

Also, with larger groups, we will divide into crews of three, four or so (two buddy pairs, or a triple).  Set out about five to ten minutes apart, after map study and rally point are understood.  Slower paced first, then a little faster, then a little faster.  If multiple adults, two adults go after first or second group, but do not pass.  Two adults go after last group as sweep.

Learn trail etiquette... step aside and let faster groups pass.

If only two adults, then one adult goes behind first group, one goes with last group (fastest).

At the rally, last group arriving gets a full rest period.  Then start off again in same order (or revised, based on slower paced first.)

This spacing is a health and safety issue for me.  We all need to provide mutual support in an emergency.  Stringing out makes accounting for everyone, and taking advantage of first aid resources and rescue options extremely difficult.

One of the most mind boggling things to me is the tendency of older, faster Scouts to hike with their face in the backpack of the person in front of them.  So, a few times during the trip, we practice lightning safety spacing... 100 feet apart while making our way to "cover".  You should try this.  It is an eye opener for group dynamics, communication, planning, and keeping track of the party.