Another Camping MB 9B Requirement Question :)

[SiouxRanger]

18 hours ago, DuctTape said:

However I would like to see the requirement have some  (10?) of the nights not be in shelters provided to the Scout.

I agree. And with counting "nights…in shelters not provided to the Scout" our unit has a firm rule that those nights are only counted if the Scout at least to adjust the thermostat AND they get their own ice from the machine down the hall.

[SSScout]

In the Troop of my yoooth,  the Troop had an overnight scheduled at least every other month, even thru the winter.  We had hikes and other events, but somewhere we had an overnight, if not at "The Property", which belonged to somebody's uncle's cousin....   

Summer camp too, both Council sponsored "official"  summer camp, and the one we set up in "The Property"....

I would hope the NEW requirements would differentiate between "under canvas, on the ground" (nylon? Plastic?)  and under "roof" (long term? On platform? ). 

Carrying your shelter on Philmont, Katahdin or on canoe  is a mark different than walking in to a Camp Scouter site and walking up a step onto a platform, even if it is under canvas held up by a 2x4 beam.   

[PACAN]

IMHO this change is unnecessary.    What is the purpose of 20 nights and requirement 9b?    Teach youth how to take care of themselves in different types of outdoor experiences?   If a scout goes to 4 summer camps, that’s 60 percent of the nights.

 

Some scouts today are finishing their Eagle nights and have 75-100 total.

 

we should go back to the pre 1960 camping mb requirement which was 50 nights with no longer term camps allowed.

Edited Friday at 01:31 AM by PACAN
Lost some wordimg

[fred8033]

12 hours ago, PACAN said:

IMHO this change is unnecessary.    What is the purpose of 20 nights and requirement 9b?    Teach youth how to take care of themselves in different types of outdoor experiences?   If a scout goes to 4 summer camps, that’s 60 percent of the nights.

 

Some scouts today are finishing their Eagle nights and have 75-100 total.

 

we should go back to the pre 1960 camping mb requirement which was 50 nights with no longer term camps allowed.

My sons each have at least 100+ qualifying nights.  If the troop is active, it's not hard.  Opportunity exists for 7 years * 12 months * 2 nights a month = 168.  Add summer camps ... now 203.  Add other special high adventures.  ... Two of my sons worked at scout camps.  I swear one of my sons probably had 300 nights in a tent before he turned 18.

20 nights is low bar to pass.  

[skeptic]

15 hours ago, PACAN said:

IMHO this change is unnecessary.    What is the purpose of 20 nights and requirement 9b?    Teach youth how to take care of themselves in different types of outdoor experiences?   If a scout goes to 4 summer camps, that’s 60 percent of the nights.

 

Some scouts today are finishing their Eagle nights and have 75-100 total.

 

we should go back to the pre 1960 camping mb requirement which was 50 nights with no longer term camps allowed.

While that may be lore in your area or unit, it was not the case.  20 Days or nights was the amount needed, and, at least in the 1960 HB, which still had requirements in the back, there was no specification regarding summer camp.  Now in the pamphlet, which I may or may not have avaailable someplace that may have been discussed.  It is hard to overcome the lore from the past, much of it being simply poor memory or units that chose their own interpretations and so on.  For example, here we had one unit that added in pioneering and wilderness survival for their youth in order to become Eagle,  It had its purpose, but some choice to leave and go elsewhere, or sadly just left.  It may that type of thing that brought on the specific publication by National regarding adherring to official requirements.  Sort of like the long time story that the earliest scouts had to light a fire without matches to advance, but even then matches were allowed; only two max, but allowed.  Friction and spark were common though, and many did it regularly.  

[PACAN]

My bad.  The 50 nights is in my copy of the 1934 MB requirements booklet.  I’ll have to look further on when it changed to 20.

[qwazse]

What percentage of scouts are doing long-term camps, to the exclusion of multiple weekend (or midweek) outings? And how is it hurting them if they don’t earn Camping MB? If they’d rather advance as far as Life, let them age out proudly.

The fundamental problem is thinking that it’s a shame to disqualify from the nation’s highest scouting award youth who don’t practice hiking and camping independently with their mates.

I sympathize with counselors who feel like they are having to split hairs, but sometimes scouts and their troops need that little nudge to think out of the box.

[InquisitiveScouter]

9 hours ago, qwazse said:

If they’d rather advance as far as Life, let them age out proudly.

The fundamental problem is thinking that it’s a shame to disqualify from the nation’s highest scouting award

I think BSA should drop the age limit.  This deadline causes so much unneeded frustration for families and Scouts, and a rush to get it done, cutting corners, and detracting from the experience.

If we want to create a great outdoor experience, we do not need to overlay the pressure of doing it for an award you are going run out of time getting.

This would also help integrate Scouts with different needs (I do not like the phrase "special needs") who need more time to complete things. 

Edited Saturday at 02:07 PM by InquisitiveScouter

[scoutldr]

I am in favor of keeping the age limit.  18 is the legal demarcation between "minor" and "adult".  Over the years, I have seen "adulthood" being pushed out older and older.  At 26, you can still be on your parents' health insurance, even if they are married with their own families.  Why, I have no idea.  I have relatives who are 30 and still being supported by their parents.  I say, "hold the line".  We are in the business of helping young people grow up and be self-sufficient.  Part of that is getting your act together to meet deadlines...or deal with the consequences.

[PACAN]

Here's what I found:

 

50 nights was the requirement in the Jan 1951 HB

20 nights was the requirement in the June 1953 HB

[qwazse]

On 1/18/2025 at 9:06 AM, InquisitiveScouter said:

I think BSA should drop the age limit.  This deadline causes so much unneeded frustration for families and Scouts, and a rush to get it done, …

As I’ve mentioned before, membership was increasing until the age limit was codified nationally. I think we can draw a chronology from that decision to the “schoolification” of what became required for advancement and what was removed from required lists.

On 1/18/2025 at 4:14 PM, scoutldr said:

….  I say, "hold the line".  We are in the business of helping young people grow up and be self-sufficient.  Part of that is getting your act together to meet deadlines...or deal with the consequences.

I would agree if the number of First Class scouts we offered this nation stayed in the millions per year. But that line is slipping. It’s only a matter of time before we produce reduced numbers of Eagles per year — not because kids can’t make deadlines, but because the award won’t seem to be much of an achievement.

I also agree there is something to be said for earning a badge as a youth, and maybe awards for adults should have a different border.

But, the more a badge is about skill, the less a maturity deadline matters. Two things come to the fore: how you serve your unit, and how you master skills.

There will be problems with having our adults work advancement. Some may conclude that certain MBs are a complete waste of time, and team up with their scouts to appeal for change. But some might be reactionary with no sense of purpose. E.g., upping the camping nights to 50 might simply not be practical anymore in our complex society.

[skeptic]

Very early there were no age limits.  Adults could earn all the same awards as youth.  Few did, but some pursued them and adult age Eagles were not overly uncommon in the first decade or two.  The official bar on adults becoming Eagle Scouts, went into effect around 1965, though it was discouraged starting as early as the late twenties.  In verified cases, adults still can be honored if they find documentation indicating they would have been honored as a youth.  Most commonly, it seems related to WWII enlistees whose paperwork fell into a crack or was forgotten.  Of course, today, challenged adults can still earn Eagle under special documentation from an early time as a member.  It may be important to remember that again in the early days, Life, Star, and Eagle were glorified merit badges that had several early changes in their requirements, eventually leading to their officially becoming a rank.