Are you in a council that has a positive or toxic culture or something different?

[Ojoman]

58 minutes ago, SiouxRanger said:

Attacks on the SE, like getting the SE fired, well, that triggers HUGE pushback. Area and Region level folks rise up. SE's are paid huge amounts. And those at Area and Region levels,. who are paid even more, stand up and protect.

 

59 minutes ago, SiouxRanger said:

The SE is a paid employee. Yep. And paid well.  The COR's care not a whit. COR's are entitled to attend the Council ANNUAL meeting, but not the regular board meetings, which years ago, were held monthly, but now, apparently now only held quarterly (all to the dimunituon of the COR's level of control.

Attacks on the SE, like getting the SE fired, well, that triggers HUGE pushback. Area and Region level folks rise up. SE's are paid huge amounts. And those at Area and Region levels,. who are paid even more, stand up and protect.

I know these things.

And so, to amalgamate a voting winning body of COR's to unseat a SE? Good luck .(You will be hated,…)

Yet,

I have done these things.

 And, the price of doing so, is dear.

And I am-

Cincinnatus

Experience is a hard teacher... The Philadelphia board quashed the placement of a new SE when they merged with Valley Forge. Flip side, the COR's were unable to stop the merger of Cortland and Syracuse councils even though they voted down the merger. Win some, lose some... Best advice is for units (and districts) to not be dependent on council. That means staying strong in leadership and program. Sadly, too many units fail to stay healthy. It is the responsibility of the units leadership and chartered partner to keep the unit healthy but these days that responsibility is too often not taken seriously. Sad state of affairs. 

 

[Ojoman]

1 hour ago, scoutldr said:

A good leader would make sure his subordinates are not "dropping the ball

And a bad leader blames his subordinates for the balls he drops... experienced that first hand. Water over the dam now but I expect it still goes on. 

[Eagle94-A1]

I

12 hours ago, Ojoman said:

And a bad leader blames his subordinates for the balls he drops... experienced that first hand. Water over the dam now but I expect it still goes on. 

Tell me  about it. I had a DFS attempt to humiliate me by blaming me for something  that he did at a staff meeting. I kept telling him let's talk about it after the staff meeting, because I didn't want to publicly embarrass him, like he was trying to do to me. After about 5 minutes and me calmly saying let's talk about it after the staff meeting. He stopped.. When I showed him the documentation that he screwed up and not me, he got angry, told me "fine" and never said anything else to me about the topic.

As for repercussions for challenging SEs, most definitely. I know one volunteer who had their membership revoked. Yep he is in the IVF for questioning financial matters the SE was doing. Worse was he Pro I know. The pro found some financial irregularities, and it escalated to a criminal matter. For his efforts he was "promoted" from a Metro sized council to one of the smallest councils in the nation.

[OaklandAndy]

50 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

I had a DFS attempt to humiliate me by blaming me for something  that he did at a staff meeting.

My direct supervisor tried doing this to me when I worked at the council and put it right back in her face after I showed her the factual timeline of how things actually played out. That in itself was catalyst for me to look for another career. She was the sweetest, hardest working lady in the whole office and if the office culture turned her into that, I knew that it would happen to me. That's why I left and work for a community college now. 

 

[Ojoman]

Eagle 94-A1 and OaklandAndy: Sad for your experiences. There are good and bad 'leaders' in every profession. I've had some awesome leaders and some of the worst. I don't want to dwell on these types of experiences but more on how to fix or improve councils and districts. The program 'starts and ends' with the units. Strong units = strong districts and strong districts = strong councils. Just as cubbing is the 'root' system for scouts, districts are the 'root system' for councils. If we have strong, independent units the future will be bright. Sadly, for decades, field staff were given the spurs to organize new units rather than strengthen and keep the existing ones. Weak units were allowed to continue to fall apart while energy was poured into creating new units that often were not needed or in competition with existing units for leadership and members. Folks at national who hadn't been in a district for decades called the shots. The districts primary purpose should always be to support the units. Everything they do should be to engage the unit leadership and assist it in delivering a program that retains membership and engages and meets the needs of both kids and parents. 

[Prime00]

On 1/23/2024 at 7:37 AM, Eagle94-A1 said:

I

Tell me  about it. I had a DFS attempt to humiliate me by blaming me for something  that he did at a staff meeting. I kept telling him let's talk about it after the staff meeting, because I didn't want to publicly embarrass him, like he was trying to do to me. After about 5 minutes and me calmly saying let's talk about it after the staff meeting. He stopped.. When I showed him the documentation that he screwed up and not me, he got angry, told me "fine" and never said anything else to me about the topic.

As for repercussions for challenging SEs, most definitely. I know one volunteer who had their membership revoked. Yep he is in the IVF for questioning financial matters the SE was doing. Worse was he Pro I know. The pro found some financial irregularities, and it escalated to a criminal matter. For his efforts he was "promoted" from a Metro sized council to one of the smallest councils in the nation.

So retaliation by SEs on volunteers for petty reasons is not something new? I am dealing with that now. Our SE has come after me, my 85 year old mother, my girlfriend and both of her kids. Right now he has both of them on an "investigative suspension" for the last 2 months. Claims that they bullied someone but can't find any proof in 2+ months. This is after he already put me out on indefinite suspension over lies that I am still fighting.  Continues to slander and defame my character at every opportunity. The way he treated an 85 year old woman with hearing and comprehension difficulties was disgusting. The other people in the room when he did it were not impressed either. Yet no punishment or even investigation into his conduct is ever done.

[InquisitiveScouter]

On 1/30/2025 at 9:02 PM, Prime00 said:

So retaliation by SEs on volunteers for petty reasons is not something new? I am dealing with that now. Our SE has come after me, my 85 year old mother, my girlfriend and both of her kids. Right now he has both of them on an "investigative suspension" for the last 2 months. Claims that they bullied someone but can't find any proof in 2+ months. This is after he already put me out on indefinite suspension over lies that I am still fighting.  Continues to slander and defame my character at every opportunity. The way he treated an 85 year old woman with hearing and comprehension difficulties was disgusting. The other people in the room when he did it were not impressed either. Yet no punishment or even investigation into his conduct is ever done.

Nor will it... always remember the warped view that the paid staff of the organization take of you:  you are expendable, and the image of the council/national/brand must be protected.  (Even if they are in the wrong of the situation, and you are in the right...integrity doesn't matter)

[mrjohns2]

I try to be super duper involved, but also try to think I may have to walk away if needed. I don’t want to be so invested that I feel like I CANT walkway. It may be the healthiest thing to do if push came to shove. 

[Ojoman]

On 1/30/2025 at 9:02 PM, Prime00 said:

So retaliation by SEs on volunteers for petty reasons is not something new? I am dealing with that now. Our SE has come after me, my 85 year old mother, my girlfriend and both of her kids. Right now he has both of them on an "investigative suspension" for the last 2 months. Claims that they bullied someone but can't find any proof in 2+ months. This is after he already put me out on indefinite suspension over lies that I am still fighting.  Continues to slander and defame my character at every opportunity. The way he treated an 85 year old woman with hearing and comprehension difficulties was disgusting. The other people in the room when he did it were not impressed either. Yet no punishment or even investigation into his conduct is ever done.

Get witnesses but know that if you fight back you are an at will employee so I would check with an attorney.

 

[Prime00]

14 hours ago, mrjohns2 said:

I try to be super duper involved, but also try to think I may have to walk away if needed. I don’t want to be so invested that I feel like I CANT walkway. It may be the healthiest thing to do if push came to shove. 

If the people in power are bold enough to pull these stunts with someone that can defend themselves, imagine what else they have done. Scouts always taught me that we are supposed to stick up for other people when they need it. It is unfortunate that the organization struggles with walking the walk that they so heavily promote. 

[Eagle94-A1]

11 hours ago, Ojoman said:

Get witnesses but know that if you fight back you are an at will employee so I would check with an attorney.

Even with witnesses, because BSA has the legal right to determine it's membership, they can remove you permanently.

 

2 hours ago, Prime00 said:

If the people in power are bold enough to pull these stunts with someone that can defend themselves, imagine what else they have done. Scouts always taught me that we are supposed to stick up for other people when they need it. It is unfortunate that the organization struggles with walking the walk that they so heavily promote. 

BSA pros are more concerned with the public image, and will do anything to protect it.

[Prime00]

Their public image isn't near what it used to be since the big lawsuits. One would think their public facing employees are better trained to avoid negative publicity when possible. Human nature and egos sometimes get in the way it seems. 

It comes down to when do enough of the volunteers finally get off the sidelines and dig in their heels? We lost something in our country over the last few decades. The amount of people willing to say something when things go off the rails is rapidly dwindling. The entire movement is built upon the foundation that our morals and values are the guiding principles. Somewhere that got lost in the day to day fight to survive. Its happening everywhere in our society unfortunately. 

[Tron]

I would say that my council culture is toxic. I can't put my finger on the pulse of where it comes from. My CE is a great guy, I like him, I don't want to say the problem is him; however, a lot of council committees do not meet which is cascading to the district level.  We're not recruiting enough people to fill the district level committees. These two things combined are collapsing our council, and it has turned into a shutup type situation when you bring up "when are we going to start meeting more regularly, and when are we going to recruit more?".

[Ojoman]

Manpower is down everywhere. The only solution is to start recruiting from cubs on up to district. Hard, and take time.