What do volunteers want and need in a Scouting Professional at the district and council levels keep this positive

[Ojoman]

My recent post on Scoutreach turned negative on professionals. Please note: that is not what this post is for. Background: I became an 'idealistic' district exec out of college back in 1971. I was fortunate to have outstanding mentors in my Scout exec and Field Director. 6 years later with 3 council experiences as a DE and SDE I left for 8 years but during that time I became a unit commissioner and then a Pack Committee Chairman. Upon returning to the profession I had a pretty good idea of what I expected and needed from my professional and translated that to how I served my volunteers. I think I ended up doing a pretty good job, not perfect but better than average in running my districts and meeting the needs of the volunteers. Feel free to speak to your experiences and if you have had an outstanding professional, let us know. You can talk about the shortcomings of service but not as an indictment of all professionals. There are a lot of truly dedicated people in the professional ranks. I'll be adding more comments as I see posts. Thanks

[InquisitiveScouter]

- A focus on unit service.  And everything viewed through that lens...

- Recruit, train, and support COMMISSIONERS to implement the unit service support.  This is the Unit Commissioners' purpose.  But in the eight councils I have been involved with over my adult years, only one did this well, and Scouting was most successful there, of all others experienced. (But that was also in the late 80's and early 90's.)  

- Low cost, high impact training for unit leaders.  (And encouragement/recognition for unit leaders who complete more advanced training.) I know it is hard enough to get program leaders to take Introduction to Outdoor Leadership Skills (a misnomer, because it is about outdoor program elements, not leadership), but there should also be more advanced skills training available.  Most adults I work with in Scouting have very little outdoor experience, and so they do not have confidence to take kids to the woods, nor to teach and train older youth to become outdoor-savvy instructors and leader-trainers .  I encourage adults to take a merit badge at camp, Pioneering or Orienteering for example.  However, most come away from that experience greatly disillusioned with the merit badge program, for a variety of reasons...   Better, when offered, to take advantage of adult-friendly programs in camp like Lifeguard BSA, or Swim & Water Rescue,  or Paddle Craft Safety (all great programs) I have also steered many adults toward National Camping School/Philmont Training Center/LNT & TREAD Level 2, etc,  to gain additional program exposure to bring back to the unit program (few are willing to give up a whole week to do this.)

- Transparency on council finances.  95% of the people I have shown our IRS 990 to are genuinely SHOCKED at the pay our Board approves for the SE.  They do not see value for the money spent.  Most professionals I have encountered are extremely uncomfortable  talking about finances to volunteers.

- Steer our district and council activities, and our local camp (including Summer Camp) to be more PATROL focused.  Campsites and program offerings are set up to cater to an individual or to a unit.  About the only patrol focused event we have anymore is Klondike... 

I'll search for a previous thread which covered this same topic... there was a lot of good stuff there from others, IIRC. 

Edited December 3, 2023 by InquisitiveScouter

[Ojoman]

1 hour ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

A focus on unit service.  And everything viewed through that lens

Some very good points. Unit support/service is, of course, the crux of volunteer concerns. Good emphasis on quality Commissioner service. I think empowering the unit leadership to provide a high quality program experience is critical to unit health and membership retention. This is particularly true at the Cub level where a youths (and parents) interests need to be met from grade K to grade 5. 

I would hope that every professional at every level really looks at what is happening in direct support of units and the delivery of a high quality program experience.  

[Eagle94-A1]

4 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

- A focus on unit service.  And everything viewed through that lens...

 

CANNOT. EMPHASIZE. THIS. ENOUGH! (Caps, bold, etc for major emphasis). I t is sad when you ask for help, and the professionals won't help you.

 

4 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

- Recruit, train, and support COMMISSIONERS to implement the unit service support....

- Low cost, high impact training for unit leaders....

- Transparency on council finances....

- Steer our district and council activities, and our local camp (including Summer Camp) to be more PATROL focused...

Concur, although the last one will be the hardest. Sadly most pros are clueless on programs, and the National literature on Patrol Method has been seriously watered down.

My additions.

-Respect for volunteers. Volunteers are what make the program happen at all levels: units, district, council, section, and national. I have seen DEs ignore, insult, yell at, and curse out volunteers. I've commented on my treatment by pros on other posts. I have had friends resign from district positions, including district chair and commissioner, over their treatment.  One new DE with no prior Scouting experience and only 6 months as a pro, attempted to publicly humiliate one long time Scouter at a district meeting. She got so angry she responded, " I've forgotten more about Scouting than you've ever learned, and I still know more than you!"

-Focus on program, not money. Yes money is important. But need a program that is worth investing in. At least in my council of late, there is no worthy council programs. The local summer camp is being negatively talked about on social media because of issues last year. And to be honest they have had issues for a very long time. Very few people, usually the military folks who are moving into the council from another, are willing to spend the time and treasure to run programs. When I ran district activities, I was put in charge at the last minute, ignored when it came scheduling a third event at the location at the last minute, did not have my supplies ordered or in insufficient quantities (you always over estimate you patches!)

If you build a program, they will come. If you have a good program, people will support it. More later.

[Jameson76]

What do we want from Professionals

1) Visibility - Our District has 20 units.  We have 3 units at our CO.  Doing math and assuming a 40 hour week, in a month the DE should be focused on what they can do to build our units close to 3.5 days.  We actually have no idea what they do.

2) Marketing - The professional should be involved in building the BSA brand.  Social media, local papers, etc. 

3) Recruiting - Leaders and Youth, focus on growing the brand

 

[Ojoman]

3 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

If you build a program, they will come. If you have a good program, people will support it

Sounds like you have experienced a couple of professionals that lacked the temperament and/or training for their position. One of my volunteers told me that the reason she and so many others worked so dilligently for me and for Scouting was because I always said THANKS! That little word means so much to volunteers. I have seen it make the difference between them doubling their efforts or walking away. Volunteers do 'their thing' for many reasons but often it is because of a core belief that they are making a positive difference for kids and for their community. There are a lot of professionals that are similarly motivated but just because they have a positive motivation doesn't mean that they will be competent in the job. Knowledge, continued training and working with and for your volunteers is a hallmark of a quality professional at any level. Thanks for your input. I know alot of professionals do come to this site and I hope they read this posting and all the comments and take something positive away from it. God Bless!

[Eagle94-A1]

It wasn't just DEs that were insulting, but also FDs, DFSs, and one SE. And what really ticked me off about the SE was that the only reason the event he did this at was a success was the hard work and dedication of one volunteer, who also contributed his treasure knowing Council would not reimburse him, that he ignored.

While I have seen a few Pros that care, most of them lately seem to be recent college grads and want a job. At least in my neck of the woods.

As for treating volunteers with respect and thanking  them, that is a must. When I was a DE, there were times that the volunteers disagreed with what I was doing. Heck there were times that I agreed with them, but was being forced to do what was being done. But because I treated them with respect, explained why things were happening, and thanked them for the work, like yours, mine  would move mountains to help me.

But more importantly, if you show that you care about the Scouts, and wanting them to have a good experience, the volunteers will respect you. I knew a brand new DE who showed up to his first district event, a Pinewood Derby. Now this DE hated  PWDs, because he had a very negative experience with them as a Cub. There  was a single mom and her Cub who showed up way to late for him to compete. There were issues with the car, so mom left and spent time and money getting them fixed. But by the time they got back, the district was about to do the final race to determine the overall champ. Only thing left after that was the Leaders' Division. Scout was visibly upset he would not be allowed to race, and mom was too. The DE stepped in, said he didn't have a car to race in the Leaders' Division, and could he borrow the Cubs, When the Cub said yes and was handing it to him, the DE said to go ahead and get it inspected for him. Then when the adults started bringing their cars to the track, the DE asked the Cub bring it for him. The DE knew how it felt to be in that Cub's place, and didn't want the Cub to have a bad experience. Word got around that the DE was in it for the Scouts. While there was some disagreements with folks, sometimes even heated one, there was still respect between everyone.

So I guess I want Pros who are in it to improve Scouts' lives, and not just collect a paycheck.

[Ojoman]

7 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

So I guess I want Pros who are in it to improve Scouts' lives, and not just collect a paycheck.

Well, you know that working for the scouts as a unit serving exec means you have a hundred or more 'bosses' to answer to and a 50 hour work week seems like a vacation. A few years ago the entry level pay was still under $40k and I doubt that it is much above that today. Young people with college loans are hard pressed to cover their basic living expenses at that rate. There is high turnover in the profession and I even know of some folks with decades of experience that are considering getting out. Constant deadlines for events, goals and quotas that sometimes don't seem to make any sense and a lot of pressure from many directions. True that most Council Execs pull down 6 figures but that is determined by the board. Anyone can look up the 990 and get an idea of what shape their council is in. A really good unit serving professioinal is worth whatever it takes to keep him/her. Same for a Council Scout Exec. Sadly, too often the Peter Principle comes into play. I do agree that without really good professionals that the movement will not recover. The care and feeding of volunteers should be an entry level course for all professionals with refreshers every few years... Best practices include prompt returns of calls/emails, thank you's, periodic visits to units including courts of honor and blue and golds, supporting and staffing all district committees and being prepared to respond to requests for information and support. The new people coming into the profession need the support of the volunteers to help them learn the job and that includes the volunteers helping when they can for the DE to meet the goals and objectives set by and for him/her. If volunteers harbor a negative view of all professionals it can become almost impossible for a new DE to survive and they will leave for a job with more pay and fewer demands and there are actually quite a few out there. Thanks for sharing. God Bless... 

 

[mrjohns2]

2 hours ago, Ojoman said:

. A few years ago the entry level pay was still under $40k and I doubt that it is much above that today.

New Mexico: All councils are equal opportunity employers. In addition to offering a competitive salary of $35,600 – $44,000.

Mississippi: In addition to offering a competitive salary of $40,000 

 

Indiana: In addition to offering a competitive salary range of $38,000 – $40,000 based on experience

 

[scoutldr]

Those salaries are pathetic.  Less than $20 per hour, based on a 40 hr work week.  And how many DEs will be successful working ONLY 40 hrs a week?  And expected to work most nights and weekends?  No wonder there is low quality and high turnover.  

[Eagle94-A1]

Back in the day when it was under $30K, buddy of mine calculated how much we averaged an hour, and that is not considering summer camp. It was under $3/hour.

As for vacation, what's that? Seriously for the 16 months, I had 1 day off, besides holidays. And I only got that day off because when I showed up to summer camp, there were too many staffers. So those of us not needed were sent home AFTER we showed up on Sunday. It would have been nice if they told us Friday afternoon, or even Saturday morning before we left. Since I had no plans for Monday, and the girlfriend was off on Mondays, we went to the beach and had a great time.

Edited December 4, 2023 by Eagle94-A1

[InquisitiveScouter]

Trim SE salaries to fill this gap.  Will aid in retention and longer term corporate health.

[HashTagScouts]

Starting salary range for DE is not much higher in metro areas. Southern New England, it's set at about $42,000/year. To put that into perspective, my local Dunkin Donuts is hiring at $17/hour to start. The Taco Bell a town over has a big help wanted sign out, starting wage up to $19/hour. Turnover is and has been high in my council and neighboring councils for as long as I've been involved as an adult, and I would say that the majority who have come and gone that I have interacted with have been good individuals, they just have come to realize they can make more money and work a less stressful position that isn't requiring them to work on an erratic schedule that often involves nights/weekends. I was 22 once, and I can appreciate wanting to take a date out on a Saturday night, or get together with friends on a Thursday evening to watch a game at the pub.   

Put aside even DE, camps in New England have difficulty getting 18+ aged staff- no wonder. Those college aged kids can get a job working flipping burgers for far more than what camp will pay them, and work less hours, eat better food, etc. Towns have been hiring certified lifeguards for about $24/hour the past few summers. It is having a real effect on quality of camp programs, which doesn't help units very much if their kids are not having a great experience and parents aren't perceiving they are getting much for their $450. 

[OaklandAndy]

7 minutes ago, HashTagScouts said:

Turnover is and has been high in my council and neighboring councils for as long as I've been involved as an adult, and I would say that the majority who have come and gone that I have interacted with have been good individuals, they just have come to realize they can make more money and work a less stressful position that isn't requiring them to work on an erratic schedule that often involves nights/weekends.

 

On top of that, higher positions aren't available for DE's like there used to be. After the lawsuit, everyone had to cut positions and "do more with less". Instead of spending 3-4 years as a DE, there are waiting 5-7 years just for a spot to open up to get promoted. 

[Ojoman]

3 hours ago, scoutldr said:

Those salaries are pathetic.  Less than $20 per hour, based on a 40 hr work week.  And how many DEs will be successful working ONLY 40 hrs a week?  And expected to work most nights and weekends?  No wonder there is low quality and high turnover.  

Perhaps if more volunteers understood the demands of the job coupled with low pay they might appreciate their DE more. Also, with the national decline in volunteerism (in all areas, not just BSA) DE's are finding themselve trying to do what used to be volunteer functions just to hold a district together. There is no question that district volunteer manpower should be a major concern. Of course very few units these days have adequate manpower even at that level.