Do local councils and/or National have an obligation to serve low income urban and rural youth?

[Ojoman]

Back in the day, when I served on the Pittsburgh and later the Syracuse council staffs we had the Scoutreach program. I know that in Syracuse it has been over a decade since the council provided services to low income city youth. With the rise in adolescent suicide, crime, drug use, failure to complete school and other serious issues, I have to question if one, do we have a responsibility to get scouting to these neighborhoods and two, if so, how do we manage to meet that responsibility and obligation?  In Syracuse, and I imagine in many other councils they don't have enough income to even maintain a minimal staff to support the remaining traditional scouting units let alone launch a Scoutreach program. I would imagine putting together an outreach that would include business, schools, churches, community centers and even law enforcement would be a great first step but where to go from there? Do we just let all of the social evils that exist in that population continue to destroy young lives or do we find a way to intervene? For 6 1/2 years I ran the Scoutreach program including running a troop myself and seeing that kids got to go camping, participate in district events and council cub and summer camps. I know it worked. A police officer at the center where my troop met told me some years later that 'none of my kids went through the system'. He thought it was important to tell me that because without scouting he pretty much knew that some of them would have gone down a dark path. Let me know what is happening in some of your councils to address this issue or thoughts on where councils/national need to go to meet the need or even if you think we ought to address this issue considering all the other hurdles the BSA has ahead of it. 

[AwakeEnergyScouter]

Our council has a Scoutreach program, but I don't know more than that. But thank you for starting this conversation, because it's a really important one!

Yes, both BSA and GSUSA have an ethical obligation to serve low-income communities, and it's not a back burner issue. Especially when proven successful, like in the Scoutreach program that you personally ran, youth programs that strengthen civil society are patriotic and helping young people live happy lives is right action. This kind of thing is, according to the BSA mission statement, core to the BSA's raîson d'être.

Let's be honest, packs and troops in middle- and upper-middle class neighborhoods are going be fine. We can literally sell more popcorn because the people around us can afford to buy it; we have old scouts returning to be scouters (half our committee and leadership) and otherwise engaged parents (the other half) who can and will organize for their kids even if council doesn't. 

BP saw kids on the streets and founded Scouts. If we see kids on the streets and we're scouters, it's much simpler to know what to do. You're barking up the right tree with a community collaboration IMO.

[dk516]

Our Council does. It is organized on District level in similar manner as "regular" Cub Scout Packs. The difference is that it is run by a local non-profit that already does outreach / after-school / youth program work and it is slightly different in programming structure. It is run by the staff and volunteers of the outreach organization and supported by a UC like any other Pack. Membership for these Youth is sponsored between the non-profit running it and Council Scout Reach funds. This just recently started again in our District so it will be interesting to see how it will work out. It seems to me that they should have a more stable membership since it is an integral part of their offering, similar to some religious organizations using Scouting as their Youth program and with that being more integrated into their offering compared to Packs where everyone is recruited and then hopefully retained.

[Ojoman]

Our packs were mainly after school programs with 1 or 2 exceptions but our troops were more along 'traditional' lines meeting in community centers and churches. The kids in the troops loved getting out of the city and we tried to get them camping at least every other month. We had equipment that was shared by the troops. Our older kids used to assist the ranger at one of our camps. They loved Ranger Dennis and would tackle any job he needed done. Thanks for the feedback... 

 

[Jameson76]

As a reminder, Scoutreach and efforts to serve the underserved have been used by professional BSA staff to inflate membership numbers. Below are two articles, but the abuses were numerous.

Alabama Boy Scouts Accused of Padding Membership (foxnews.com)

Atlanta Scouts Inflated Numbers - The Washington Post

A needed effort, but the administration and potential for abuse is huge.

Edited November 30, 2023 by Jameson76

[Ojoman]

Jameson76: I would point out that those articles are about membership practices at a local council level and are two decades old. Personally I only know of one executive that 'fudged' membership and I reported it to the new Scout Exec and I got disciplined for it and the membership stayed on the books for a couple of years. I have to say that in 30 years in the profession that is the only case that I can claim to have direct knowledge of and it was Learning for Life, no scoutreach. Not to say that some individuals have not padded the books but it is a practice that will get you fired if it gets to the area or national level. However, I do also believe that if you want to dead end your career in the BSA just be a whistleblower... IMHO... based on my experience. (PS: my experience was a bit over 2 decades ago too).

[Eagle94-A1]

Sadly I know several councils where numbers were fudged. Heck one SE and DFS had a reputation for doing this, and using the DEs as scapegoats to get out of trouble. It was so well known that I was warned to watch my back with them by a SE I knew.    As @Ojomanstated, if you want to kill your career in Scouting, be a whistleblower. I have met pros, really good ones IMHO, that found some shady stuff, reported, and were penalized.

 

 

[InquisitiveScouter]

23 hours ago, Jameson76 said:

As a reminder, Scoutreach and efforts to serve the underserved have been used by professional BSA staff to inflate membership numbers. Below are two articles, but the abuses were numerous.

Alabama Boy Scouts Accused of Padding Membership (foxnews.com)

Atlanta Scouts Inflated Numbers - The Washington Post

A needed effort, but the administration and potential for abuse is huge.

From that Atlanta article, "Eight Scout officials are believed to have participated in the false record-keeping, said Tom Gay, president of the council's board of directors."

I know the articles are from 18 years ago, but in this digital age, black eyes take much longer to go away...

And, you know there were more involved in both councils... just didn't get implicated in it...

And other councils did the same.

Think any of those folks are still left in the organization?  I do.

Yet another shining example for the mission of BSA, "... to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Scout Law."

[Ojoman]

53 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Yet another shining example for the mission of BSA, "... to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Scout Law."

In my 30 years as a professional and over 20 as a volunteer I always wanted to know the 'lowest' number of registered youth each year since kids stay on the charter until reregistation time. The low number is generally closer to an accurate count of active youths vs 'total youth served (registered) during the year. Districts always carry 'inactive' youths but it is insane to carry 'paper units and members'. Certainly in councils where the management beats professionals with threats of termination if they don't hit their numbers there is that temptation to keep your job or to try to get a promotion but I always felt that would come back to bite you in the butt. Still, I felt that putting 'fake' membership on the books was and is rare. Check out my post on Charter Reps if you want to know who can alert the board to such an issue. The council board should be well informed about the workings of the council and concerned about any area of service, funding and membership where there is a failure to perform properly. It would be great if everyone in every profession lived up to what we hope the program instills in our young people. 

[SiouxRanger]

1 hour ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

From that Atlanta article, "Eight Scout officials are believed to have participated in the false record-keeping, said Tom Gay, president of the council's board of directors."

I know the articles are from 18 years ago, but in this digital age, black eyes take much longer to go away...

And, you know there were more involved in both councils... just didn't get implicated in it...

And other councils did the same.

Think any of those folks are still left in the organization?  I do.

Yet another shining example for the mission of BSA, "... to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Scout Law."

My recollection is that the number of non-existent scouts falsely registered in the Atlanta council exceeded the total number of scouts registered in my council.  I lost all faith in National and the professional staff at that point.

Why are the professional staff "commissioned?" Because they are trained, held to a higher standard, Trustworthy? 

And after that report on the Atlanta council, we then learned of and experienced the BSA abuse scandal and devastating bankruptcy which has shamed the organization's otherwise stellar reputation of over one hundred years, and diminished the value of the awards earned by so many.

Apparently, the principles of the Scout Oath and Scout Law apply only to us Dupees, (we pay) and not to those Dupors (who profit) who have a huge BSA salary or pension.

[SiouxRanger]

31 minutes ago, Ojoman said:

Still, I felt that putting 'fake' membership on the books was and is rare.

I KNOW that it was commonplace in my council.

Presumably, you have a pension from National and your comments should be interpreted thus so.

And if no BSA pension, please so state.

[Eagle94-A1]

4 hours ago, Ojoman said:

In my 30 years as a professional and over 20 as a volunteer I always wanted to know the 'lowest' number of registered youth each year since kids stay on the charter until reregistation time. The low number is generally closer to an accurate count of active youths vs 'total youth served (registered) during the year. Districts always carry 'inactive' youths but it is insane to carry 'paper units and members'. Certainly in councils where the management beats professionals with threats of termination if they don't hit their numbers there is that temptation to keep your job or to try to get a promotion but I always felt that would come back to bite you in the butt. Still, I felt that putting 'fake' membership on the books was and is rare. Check out my post on Charter Reps if you want to know who can alert the board to such an issue. The council board should be well informed about the workings of the council and concerned about any area of service, funding and membership where there is a failure to perform properly. It would be great if everyone in every profession lived up to what we hope the program instills in our young people. 

 

It was commonplace in a lot of councils. I heard stories from other pros about folks going to graveyards and using phone books to get names. I know one district  had 1/3 of the members and units that were fake. The DE tried his best to clean up the mess, and the SE and DFS were ticked off and forced the DE out of the profession. While I agree it is insane to keep paper units and Scouts, there are some pros who would do anything to get the numbers so they can meet goals and get raises. Same DE was  at a staff conference, and thought his SE was telling folks how to spot fake units to fix the problem. His peers told him to think about it, they were just told how to fake membership without getting caught right.

While theoretically CORs and the executive board have some power, there are ways to limit it. If CORs are not informed of the meetings until the last minute or after the fact, how can they go? Also you do know about the CORs in Chicago a few years back? And the same SE and DFS above told DEs how to manipulate the nominating committee in order to get folks who would be friendly towards the council. They wanted the DE to remove 3/4s of his district committee because they questioned council.

And I can go on.

If your 50+ years were not like my 40+years, I am jealous.

 

[Ojoman]

19 hours ago, SiouxRanger said:

after that report on the Atlanta council, we then learned of and experienced the BSA abuse scandal and devastating bankruptcy which has shamed the organization's otherwise stellar reputation of over one hundred years, and diminished the value of the awards earned by so many.

Apparently, the principles of the Scout Oath and Scout Law apply only to us Dupees, (we pay) and not to those Dupors (who profit) who have a huge BSA salary or pension.

SiouxRanger... you sound disillusioned but I'm betting that you have known some truly fine professionals. Like lawyers, a few bad apples give the rest a bad name. I know I worked with many outstanding members of the profession from all ranks. Most professionals other than Scout Execs or regional/national staff are poorly paid for the hours that they work. Those that stay in unit service (God Bless them) do so mostly because they believe in what they are doing and want to provide good service to their volunteers. IMHO the problem is at the top, both of councils and of national along with the boards at each level. The things that bring quality and retention (which is the only sure way to grow numbers) such as Pow Wow's, Institutes of Scouting, well attended Roundtables, in person training and solid district and council programing and program support are the things that council boards need to be concerned with along with seeing that the council is properly staffed and that means raising funds. Scout Execs generally come into a council without anyone there 'owing' them so they depend upon the board to open doors for them to find paths to generate the funding needed. I was a victim of that 'whistleblower' situation and had my pay cut, then was downsized out of the profession and blackballed for 5 years and ended up coming back for my final 5 years at entry level just to get the years for my pension with is minimal so I am one of those 'low income seniors'. Just pointing out that even though I have cause to be jaundiced about professionals, I know most are trying but the tide is against them. Too few volunteers, to large an area to work, too many pressures, goals and deadlines... You can't imagine the stress that was lifted when I retired. I will always love the program and the volunteers. The volunteer relationships were the biggest part of my compensation. 

[Ojoman]

19 hours ago, SiouxRanger said:

Presumably, you have a pension from National and your comments should be interpreted thus so.

And if no BSA pension, please so state.

Answered in my last response but not really generic to this thread. This seems to have become a PRO SCOUTER BASHING instead of a concern for low income and minority youth. I would like to keep things on a more positive level. Recently, a s volunteer I created the Erie Canal Historic Trail award with little support from the council exec but some from his #2 guy. When the assistant scout exec has his duties plus running a multi county district because the SE does not have the funds or the interest to fill the vacancy then it's that up to your *** in gators thing. Council and District opps are dealing with manpower issues at all levels. Units/districts/council and sadly I don't see that getting any better. A truly great program for kids is in decline and I expect will remain so. Having said that, let's do what we can to still get it to the kids that need it most while it is still available.