Considering moving packs

[fred8033]

16 hours ago, Armymutt said:

...  One of my biggest issues is their fundraising policy.  ...

Don't use fundraising as a decision factor.  It's noise; annoying yes, but still noise.  Key factors are fun and involvement and a healthy environment.  

[Tron]

20 hours ago, Armymutt said:

The CM and I had some discussions this weekend.  He's also fed up with the lack of participation from parents and so-called leaders.  He's considering a pack that meets on Sunday for his younger son.  He has some behavior issues that get worse after being in school all day. Add in that he doesn't behave well when his dad is in charge of things, and a change of scenery might be best for them.  We also talked to other pack leaders.  The boys had fun.  They didn't interact with the kids from the pack we are considering very much, but my son really liked hanging out with a kid who was considering joining us but didn't due to the meeting night of the week.  One of my biggest issues is their fundraising policy.  In our program, the Scouts gets credit for 100% of the commission earned.  The pack keeps any donations.  If we ever needed to buy anything, it would go into the annual budget and become part of dues across the board.  We feel this is the most fair method since it rewards Scout (and parents) for hard work.  These other packs are on a tier basis.  One pack maxes out at 30% of the commission, meaning that in order to simply pay for the renewal, the Scout has to sell $1800 worth of popcorn.  In our pack, that would cover renewal, pack dues (advancement, PWD car, B&G, end of year den advancement party, Christmas party, adult registrations, unit recharter, and a t-shirt), day camp, a new uniform, and the two council campouts each year.  

How do other packs recruit?  We can't get into the schools.  I've tried to nudge the DLs to plan hikes or something in the neighborhoods around where we meet.  I figure that might generate some interest.  So far, they haven't done it.  Hopefully the Army moves me back home this summer and I can get a little more hands-on with things.  Right now, we will probably continue until my oldest has AOL, then look to move with my daughter.  

30% is probably due to the IRS rules. The fact that your current pack puts all into the scout account is probably violating the IRS rules on dollar-for-dollar non-profit fundraising and the personal benefit rules.

[Armymutt]

On 12/3/2023 at 8:22 PM, Ojoman said:

Check out the Federal Boy Scouts of America Equal Access Act https://www2.ed.gov/policy/rights/guid/ocr/boyscouts.html  

school districts are required by federal statute to provide the same access to scouts that they allow for any other outside group. If they bring in outside agencies, distribute any sort of flyer for sports, community events or activities that involve any outside group they must do the same for scouts. Don't use this as a club... use it to help them control access to students. Tell them that there are only a couple of groups on the list that might ever ask for any accomodation so the district can limit access to only those that are on the list. I had a very nice chat with our superintendent and ended up having the school not only pass out fliers but also running a PSA that you can download from National and they displayed posters in the school and invited us to have a table at the family fun back to school night. We ended up with over 20 families interested. 

 

I don't know if the schools will let us in or not.  Either way, there's no one to get into the schools.  I live 600 miles away.  Schools near the pack aren't in session on weekends.  My kids go to school 30 minutes away.  Until the kids in the pack start inviting their classmates or their parents volunteer to run a table on open house nights, we aren't getting into the schools.

On 12/4/2023 at 10:53 AM, fred8033 said:

Don't use fundraising as a decision factor.  It's noise; annoying yes, but still noise.  Key factors are fun and involvement and a healthy environment.  

For us, it's a pretty big factor.  It's very demoralizing to expend hours in front of a store with the kids and receive very little from it.  Even worse is when those who don't put in the time and effort receive the same benefits.  We get the excuse of "I don't have time."  I drive 600 miles, get in at midnight, and am up at 6AM to pick up popcorn, take it to the site, and stand there to sell it for 2 hours.  

[Ojoman]

50 minutes ago, Armymutt said:

I don't know if the schools will let us in or not.  Either way, there's no one to get into the schools. 

You need to have your DE do this along with your unit commissioner and district membership chairman. They should be on board to assist, especially to save a unit. They need to know what your unit status is and they need to assist in helping turn the unit around!

[satl8]

On 12/3/2023 at 7:22 PM, Ojoman said:

Check out the Federal Boy Scouts of America Equal Access Act https://www2.ed.gov/policy/rights/guid/ocr/boyscouts.html  

school districts are required by federal statute to provide the same access to scouts that they allow for any other outside group. If they bring in outside agencies, distribute any sort of flyer for sports, community events or activities that involve any outside group they must do the same for scouts. Don't use this as a club... use it to help them control access to students. Tell them that there are only a couple of groups on the list that might ever ask for any accomodation so the district can limit access to only those that are on the list. I had a very nice chat with our superintendent and ended up having the school not only pass out fliers but also running a PSA that you can download from National and they displayed posters in the school and invited us to have a table at the family fun back to school night. We ended up with over 20 families interested. 

 

All of the schools around us are very familiar with this law, They adopted the policy to not let anyone in.

[OaklandAndy]

11 hours ago, satl8 said:

All of the schools around us are very familiar with this law, They adopted the policy to not let anyone in.

Very true. The loophole is if we don't let anyone do anything, then we can say no to everyone, including scouting. 

[Eagle_Chris]

@Armymutt - You can join a new unit, if there are too many challenges with your existing one.

Go to Be A Scout website, enter your zip code and see all of the units in your area.  Visit some to see how other units operate.

From your posts, you are going above and beyond trying to address the shortcomings in your pack versus being able to enjoy the Scouting experience with your child.

Edited December 7, 2023 by Eagle_Chris

[Ojoman]

On 12/6/2023 at 8:56 AM, OaklandAndy said:

Very true. The loophole is if we don't let anyone do anything, then we can say no to everyone, including scouting. 

No one? I bet that there are programs brought in by the local police and fire departments and that the PTO has brought in some programs. Some teachers may bring in outside people to do presentations for students and outside groups may run book fairs and other events for the school. Get the PTO and School Board in your court. Sell the benefits at a time when student behavior is becoming an issue including bullying/cyber bullying and other anti social activities are growing. Our school board actually has referred to that law in their rules to reinforce open door policies for BSA. Good Luck

 

[OaklandAndy]

56 minutes ago, Ojoman said:

No one? I bet that there are programs brought in by the local police and fire departments and that the PTO has brought in some programs.

Yep, no one. Some superintendents have decided for all schools in a county that no outside organization is allowed. Doesn't matter if it's the fire department, scouts, or any other organization. It's crazy that they would throw away so many resources, but then you have groups like that Satanic After School club trying to get in your school as well. But that's another story. 

[satl8]

2 hours ago, OaklandAndy said:

Yep, no one. Some superintendents have decided for all schools in a county that no outside organization is allowed. Doesn't matter if it's the fire department, scouts, or any other organization. It's crazy that they would throw away so many resources, but then you have groups like that Satanic After School club trying to get in your school as well. But that's another story. 

Agreed, the superintendents have control of the keys and have locked everyone out at the risk of being sued because one org got in and another was turned away. The ones that do allow outside orgs have instituted fee structures that are unreachable for units. One school quoted us something like $125 a night for a simple meeting place.