Considering moving packs

[Armymutt]

Tonight was our November pack meeting.  None of the DLs showed up.  I think we have 14 active Scouts and 6 were in attendance.  One DL didn't bother to communicate that he wasn't coming.  I'm getting tired of being one of the only ones who cares.  We have a Webelos parent who didn't bother coming inside to even pay for her son's renewal, let alone be present for him to receive his advancement.    Our next meeting will be the pack meeting in December because our CO won't let us meet there for the next two weeks.  I'm tired of the apathy from parents and leaders alike.  I'm even more tired of having to fight people to improve the program.  We drive an extra 5 miles because this pack is at our church, despite the church treating us as just some outside organization using their buildings.  We have a Webelos/Scouts BSA campout this weekend.  It's being championed by a pack closer to us.  I like the CM and it seems like the parents are actually interested in being involved.  I think this will serve as a sort of interview for that pack.  The problem is, if my family leaves, our current pack will collapse in short order.  I'm the CC.  My wife is the treasurer.  The CM lacks initiative and communication skills.  The secretary is just holding a title.  The ACM rarely shows up and is also the Lion DL.  It's very frustrating trying to run things from 600 miles away and not getting at least a little effort on the part of everyone else in keeping this train on the tracks.  I'm the one traveling an hour away to the Scout Shop to buy advancement on the Saturdays that I'm home.  I've put a lot of effort into this pack and I've been reluctant to watch it fail.  However, I'm growing tired of having to adult for Millennials.    

[dk516]

1 hour ago, Armymutt said:

The problem is, if my family leaves, our current pack will collapse in short order.  I'm the CC.  My wife is the treasurer.  The CM lacks initiative and communication skills. 

What is going to happen to the Pack when your Scout crosses over? *Are you going to stay in the Pack forever? What is to say that the current structure isn't going to fail regardless once you leave but maybe just in a year or two from now rather than sooner? And sometimes things have to fall to ashes so the Phoenix can rise again and maybe somebody else will actually come along and bring in a new motivated network to take over.

I've seen Packs come and go. With the right group of adult volunteers where everyone is pulling in the same direction it can be great. In the end, you are a volunteer and give your resources running the Pack which the least of reward you should get from is that you and your family have fun and your Scouts can thrive from it. I have been in a lot of volunteer organizations and sometimes you just have to cut your losses and move on to still have a rewarding opportunity rather than try and hang onto something that is not going to make it. 

[scoutldr]

The MOST important thing is YOUR scout's experience.  Take care of that.  Whatever it takes.  It's obvious no one else is interested in that and they have no loyalty to you or your efforts.  Thanks for trying, but no one can do it alone.

[fred8033]

Your scout's experience comes first.  Period.  ...  I am sad that my kids are grown.  The truth is the time passes too quick.  Their scouting careers are very, very short. 

Get your kid into a great scouting experience now.  AND, it is 100% okay to switch packs and then just sit back and enjoy scouting from the shadows.  Volunteer now and then as you can, but let others take the lead as you watch your kid grow.  

[Tron]

You can't carry the pack on your own. Have you voiced these same concerns to the other parents and leaders? 

[Armymutt]

7 hours ago, Tron said:

You can't carry the pack on your own. Have you voiced these same concerns to the other parents and leaders? 

I can't even get a response when asking about planning the PWD.  Parents just sit.  It's getting more and more frustrating every week.  The WDL won't publish a schedule or even give the parents an idea of how he plans to complete the program given the concerns I have raised with him.  I would love to plan some really cool activities, but I'm afraid no one will show up and those that do will just stand around expecting to be entertained.  

[OaklandAndy]

I had this issue with the parents as well, not so much with our DL's. I had the DL's take all the scouts outside for activities while the parents stayed inside. I sat on the stage and told them we needed to have a heart to heart. After letting them know if we don't get more consistent support/involvement, this would be my last year. 

Apparently that was enough because at the end of the meetings I had 1 new DL, 3 Asst. DL's, and 3 new Comm. Members. 

Had they not stepped up, I would've walked and the Pack would probably folded over time. The whole experience was becoming too stressful and volunteering, even at the cub scout level, is not supposed to be like that. 

Now we're one big happy family...well most of us! 

[Armymutt]

I wish we could do this.  However, of the 5 adults in attendance, 4 are already "Leaders" - the CM, Treasurer, and 2 Bear ADLs.  I really think the best course of action is to combine the units.  We currently have 2 Lions, 2 Tigers, 2 Wolves, 4 Bears, and 4 Webelos, of which one will drop at the end of the year.  

[Tron]

So you're pack is small which limits your access to adults. Think about the pool of volunteers something like this: There are only so many adults that are at the same time capable of volunteering and able to volunteer. So what you have to do is grow your pack to a level of scouts that gives you access to enough capable and able adults. Typically that number is 30-45 scouts. 

[Armymutt]

23 minutes ago, Tron said:

So you're pack is small which limits your access to adults. Think about the pool of volunteers something like this: There are only so many adults that are at the same time capable of volunteering and able to volunteer. So what you have to do is grow your pack to a level of scouts that gives you access to enough capable and able adults. Typically that number is 30-45 scouts. 

Hard to grow when I'm the only one doing anything.  I don't expect every parent to be as dedicated as I am, but I expect them to at least participate when we have a pack meeting.  How hard is it to cheer for a Scout when they receive an award?  The only reason we have den leaders is because I told the parents that there will be no den unless they do it.  Another den got ADLs because the DL failed to put in any advancement for two months.  Their kids were getting no awards and they got fed up.

[DuctTape]

23 hours ago, Armymutt said:

I wish we could do this.  However, of the 5 adults in attendance, 4 are already "Leaders" - the CM, Treasurer, and 2 Bear ADLs.  I really think the best course of action is to combine the units.  We currently have 2 Lions, 2 Tigers, 2 Wolves, 4 Bears, and 4 Webelos, of which one will drop at the end of the year.  

With these numbers, I am not surprised of the difficulties.  2 scouts is not a den, 4 barely. Not to sound harsh, but these numbers do not make viable dens, let alone a pack. The pack needs to either fold or merge IMO. 

[Ojoman]

On 11/28/2023 at 7:57 PM, Armymutt said:

I've put a lot of effort into this pack and I've been reluctant to watch it fail.  However, I'm growing tired of having to adult for Millennials. 

I hear you... Sounds like there are several serious issues impacting your pack. Size of the pack and dens, parent support, Retention/recruiting, and program content. I would suggest another round of recruiting at all grade levels (k-5) to get some new blood on board. Then a parents meeting to emphasize the importance of parental involvement. Parents can assist with events/activities without being registered but registration is a plus. Review your pack 12 month program plan. (yes, 12 months, summer activities should be the iceing on the cake). School/community relationships is critical and I hope your school district supports your pack. Have age appropriate events/activities so the experience changes as the cubs move up. Try to have 2 years worth of activity program for each level (k/1,2/3,4/5) so kids and parents can see what is coming up. Have a mini 'high adventure' for grade 5 AOL, perhaps earning an historic trail medal or some other achievement no available to the younger Cubs. Good Luck...

 

[RememberSchiff]

On 11/28/2023 at 7:57 PM, Armymutt said:

...We have a Webelos/Scouts BSA campout this weekend.  It's being championed by a pack closer to us.  I like the CM and it seems like the parents are actually interested in being involved.  I think this will serve as a sort of interview for that pack. ...

@Armymutt   Did your scouts have fun with the other, closer pack this weekend?

Did you have fun?

RS

Edited December 2, 2023 by RememberSchiff

[Armymutt]

On 12/2/2023 at 3:27 PM, RememberSchiff said:

@Armymutt   Did your scouts have fun with the other, closer pack this weekend?

Did you have fun?

RS

The CM and I had some discussions this weekend.  He's also fed up with the lack of participation from parents and so-called leaders.  He's considering a pack that meets on Sunday for his younger son.  He has some behavior issues that get worse after being in school all day. Add in that he doesn't behave well when his dad is in charge of things, and a change of scenery might be best for them.  We also talked to other pack leaders.  The boys had fun.  They didn't interact with the kids from the pack we are considering very much, but my son really liked hanging out with a kid who was considering joining us but didn't due to the meeting night of the week.  One of my biggest issues is their fundraising policy.  In our program, the Scouts gets credit for 100% of the commission earned.  The pack keeps any donations.  If we ever needed to buy anything, it would go into the annual budget and become part of dues across the board.  We feel this is the most fair method since it rewards Scout (and parents) for hard work.  These other packs are on a tier basis.  One pack maxes out at 30% of the commission, meaning that in order to simply pay for the renewal, the Scout has to sell $1800 worth of popcorn.  In our pack, that would cover renewal, pack dues (advancement, PWD car, B&G, end of year den advancement party, Christmas party, adult registrations, unit recharter, and a t-shirt), day camp, a new uniform, and the two council campouts each year.  

How do other packs recruit?  We can't get into the schools.  I've tried to nudge the DLs to plan hikes or something in the neighborhoods around where we meet.  I figure that might generate some interest.  So far, they haven't done it.  Hopefully the Army moves me back home this summer and I can get a little more hands-on with things.  Right now, we will probably continue until my oldest has AOL, then look to move with my daughter.  

[Ojoman]

1 hour ago, Armymutt said:

How do other packs recruit?  We can't get into the schools.  I've tried to nudge the DLs to plan hikes or something in the neighborhoods around where we meet.  I figure that might generate some interest.  So far, they haven't done it.  Hopefully the Army moves me back home this summer and I can get a little more hands-on with things.  Right now, we will probably continue until my oldest has AOL, then look to move with my daughter. 

Check out the Federal Boy Scouts of America Equal Access Act https://www2.ed.gov/policy/rights/guid/ocr/boyscouts.html  

school districts are required by federal statute to provide the same access to scouts that they allow for any other outside group. If they bring in outside agencies, distribute any sort of flyer for sports, community events or activities that involve any outside group they must do the same for scouts. Don't use this as a club... use it to help them control access to students. Tell them that there are only a couple of groups on the list that might ever ask for any accomodation so the district can limit access to only those that are on the list. I had a very nice chat with our superintendent and ended up having the school not only pass out fliers but also running a PSA that you can download from National and they displayed posters in the school and invited us to have a table at the family fun back to school night. We ended up with over 20 families interested.