Does This Go Against YPT?

[RookieScouter]

We recently moved to a new Troop a few months ago. Two weeks ago Scoutmaster announced parents and committee members will no longer be able to be in building during meetings. Just the Scoutmaster and Assistant Scoutmaster with the scouts. I get this is a scout ran program but can they really ban others from being at the meeting? I typically stay outside anyway talking with other parents. But there are some parents that don't find this acceptable and feel that something isn't right. One parent has an autistic scout. Does this go against YPT? 

[fred8033]

All answers start here.   BSA Guide To Safe Scouting.
https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34416.pdf
* Key point ... Page three ... "All aspects of the Scouting program are open to observation by parents and leaders. "

His solution does not completely jive with G2SS as all activities are to be open.  But it is also not explicitly against G2SS as he has the required number of registered adults.  

My real question is why?  Ask.  Why.  Get to know the scoutmaster.  Offer a coffee or cookie.  Then broach the question.  I suspect there is a different issue he's trying to solve.  Obsessive parents?  Too many parents?  Parents inserting themselves.  

My own history as an adult leader showed that adults inserting themselves into the youth program was one of the absolute biggest problems in scouting.  It kills the program. 
 

Edited November 21, 2023 by fred8033

[SSScout]

IMHO This is not a YPT issue, but a ego PT...

BSA is very careful about ALL events and operations being open to observation by parents.   This does not mean "manipulation"  but looking on and "being there".  

Registration as an adult and taking the YPT  is necessary, but no one can deny the parent the right/ability to "observe". 

Converstion wih those involved seems appropriate.  The CO and COR are to be involved, and IMHO, a Troop cannot have too many WELL TRAINED  ASMs...  And maybe your local Unit Commish, if you have one. 

Right, Fred? 

Edited November 21, 2023 by SSScout

[fred8033]

5 minutes ago, SSScout said:

.... ... ... 

Great answer.  My gut says it's a quietly observe problem.  

[Tron]

So the SM is off the mark. First of all, all aspects of the program are open to parent observation. Secondly part of the purpose of the committee is to monitor and potentially correct problems in the SM corps. My gut tells me that the SM is doing something wrong and was possibly challenged on it and is now trying to get rid of observation.

[scoutldr]

"Observation" means "no participation or interference" in what you are observing.  Many parents can't do that.

[mrjohns2]

12 hours ago, scoutldr said:

Many parents can't do that.

True, but an adult would address the issue instead of banning everyone. 

[Double Eagle]

There may some SM mis-interpretation.  Meetings have much different rules for YPT vs outings and overnighters.  Parents or guardians are never banned from observing events/meetings.  Interaction and attending different depending on the event.  Selling popcorn outside store will most likely have unregistered adults mixed with registered adults.  The unit has to enforce YP in that case.  

The biggest recent changes have stressed the "registered" adult versus just any adult.  Event attendance is now for registered adults only thing for scouts, packs have different rules.  

We held an October roundtable to address the recent changes, hold a forum with two scout executives, and have open discussions with interpretation.  Basically, I came away with, if you don't practice YP as outlined (yes, there are a lot of gray areas), the event, scouts, leaders, and Chartered Org may not be covered by council insurance. 

[Tron]

On 11/22/2023 at 8:45 AM, Double Eagle said:

There may some SM mis-interpretation.  Meetings have much different rules for YPT vs outings and overnighters.  Parents or guardians are never banned from observing events/meetings.  Interaction and attending different depending on the event.  Selling popcorn outside store will most likely have unregistered adults mixed with registered adults.  The unit has to enforce YP in that case.  

The biggest recent changes have stressed the "registered" adult versus just any adult.  Event attendance is now for registered adults only thing for scouts, packs have different rules.  

We held an October roundtable to address the recent changes, hold a forum with two scout executives, and have open discussions with interpretation.  Basically, I came away with, if you don't practice YP as outlined (yes, there are a lot of gray areas), the event, scouts, leaders, and Chartered Org may not be covered by council insurance. 

Wrong, you must be registered to overnight with a troop. Parents can still attend to observe as long as they do not overnight.

[Double Eagle]

I was hinting at this in my second paragraph.  Overnighters is the easy explaination.  Unregistered adults attending troop events, whether day trips or things like bowl-a-thons, have been a hot discoussion point within our council.  When in doubt, get the paid Scouters to advise.  

[sierracharliescouter]

There may be some State-specific concerns going on here as well. In California, (and I think something similar in a few other states), all adults spending more than a minimal amount of time with youth in volunteer organizations have to go through a separate background check than the one done by BSA. This is 16 hours in a month or 32 in a year. This includes any activity, whether overnight or not. All of our registered adults are required to have this additional background check, but other parents are restricted from some activities in order to stay compliant with this law. 

As much as we would like to be 100% transparent in all activities for all parents, this law makes that not entirely possible unless they do the other background check.

[curious_scouter]

If you have a good relationship with the SM - just ask them why.  It's not technically a YPT violation as long as 2up and no 1:1 but it's a bad look and officially all aspects are open to observation so if a parent pressed the issue they'd have to relent anyway.  I suspect they are having issues with parents who can't let the Scouts do their thing and rather than single someone out or maybe out of general frustration they went "scorched earth" on who can be in the building during meetings. 

[SiouxRanger]

On 11/20/2023 at 9:44 PM, RookieScouter said:

I get this is a scout ran program but can they really ban others from being at the meeting?

NO.  WRONG.  Totally wrong.

Violates YPT and a parent's common sense.

No one gets between me and my child. This is a "go-to-the-mat, or move on issue."

In over 20 years of intense volunteering at pack, troop, district and council, never, ever heard of such a position/policy.

Send a written notice/demand for intervention to the Council Exec., certified mail, return receipt requested. (And by regular mail also.)  Keep copies/postal receipts for your file.  Carbon copy your Institutional Head, and Chartered Organization Representative.  All the parents for that matter. And carbon copy to your attorney-note in your letter/notice/demand for intervention that the IH, COR, troop parents, and your attorney are receiving copies.

Do this even if you leave the Troop.  It is an ethical responsibility not to leave other children exposed to this SM.

Don't have an attorney, find a Scouting Friendly attorney who will agree to being a named as a carbon copy recipient. There are likely many such attorneys, attorneys being high achievers, many are Eagles.  PM me if you can' find one.

Maybe advise the SM that you are going to send such a notice.  Hand a copy to the SM. Smile. If he changes the policy, he needs to do so in writing, signed by him. If not, send the notice/demand for clarification anyway.  Then you will be on the record as having identified his abhorrent policy. And a potential abuser or abuser in the making.

Hasn't 120 years of silence taught us anything?

Aggressive? Well, yes.  Aggressive response needed? Yes.

Abusers favor shadows. Remoteness.  Out of sight.  And silence.  And complacent parents who ASSUME that scout leaders are "good people." And mostly they are. But this SM needs to be replaced. 

 

[BetterWithCheddar]

On 11/21/2023 at 9:28 AM, fred8033 said:

My real question is why?  Ask.  Why.  Get to know the scoutmaster.  Offer a coffee or cookie.  Then broach the question.  I suspect there is a different issue he's trying to solve.  Obsessive parents?  Too many parents?  Parents inserting themselves.  

It's OK to raise an eyebrow at the situation, but I 100% agree with Fred here - start with the why, first.