Cub Scout Program Updates Starting June 24, 2024

[SSScout]

So now there is a PROGRAM for the kids.  

Do we have a PROGRAM for the parents?   Maybe that's what this really is.

 The original Cub Scout "program"  was supposed to be (as I remember it)  a fun thing where the kid  had some fun stuff and (without really realizing it)  learned some important stuff along the way.  Trust, cooperation, teamwork,  good ideals, handy skills, pride of craft,  ,,,, What else?  Ranks weren't so much GOALS TO BE MET,  as  MILESTONES ALONG THE WAY. 

The parents we had were folks that had lived thru the Great Depression, the World War,  the Korean War, , They knew hard work and sacrifice for others.  They knew working together in the community was important, they took us kids along with them to Lions Club Meetings, community fund raising fairs,  PTA meetings even.  Cub Scouting was really a junior version of all that.  The adults  were a mixed bag, of course, and some knew THIS and some knew THAT.  Maybe I was just lucky....

BOBCAT was a pin one earned for learning the basic Cub Promise, Law of the Pack, Cub Sign,  salute, and such.  Any kid could join at any age, the Bobcat was the first thing.  Not every kid started at Wolf.   It was not a PATCH.  When the Cub Program jettisoned the Jungle Book references, it lost alot of the fun, imagination of childhood aspect.  Was that because of Rudyard Kipling's  Imperial connections?  His (possible) unfortunate racial/ethnic discrimination inherent in the British Imperial System?   One can read "IF"  and see in it, as in much of his literature,  alot any human could use for ideals....  I'd like to think even B-P learned, overcame his own racial/ethnic prejudices as the Scouting Movement became internationally known.... 

It would seem that because of the ease with which we allow others to do things for us (cell phones for libraries,  push buttons to open  doors, cars that PREVENT us from making any traffic mistakes,  ) it has become unnecessary for nascent parents to raise (raise?) their children, but trust to a "program"  to guide them in that endeavor.  Is it really the librarian's sole responsibility to explain why one book is appropriate and another isn't for a first grader?   

There are now better GUIDELINES, RULES to protect Scouts, if not the BSA organization, from themselves .  There still needs to be actively involved parents  to guide, protect, example adulthood to the next generation.   The hugely expensive and yet absolutely necessary accounting of the BSA's egregious mistakes of the past only goes to show how some parents neglected to BELIEVE their Scouts, even believe their own eyes, and act on that knowledge?   Do these newly adopted guidelines and rules absolve the parent from their responsibility to (themselves) guide and help the next Scouts become the next Scout Leaders?   

Mowgli, please call your office, er,  cave....   

[Armymutt]

Does anyone have an idea of how this will work for kids already in the pipeline?  It would be pretty crappy for a kid to be looking forward to earning AOL in August 2024 because he only has 2 adventures to do over the summer while waiting for the 6 months since turning 10 to arrive.    

[Eagle94-A1]

11 hours ago, CubHerder said:

I really like this new organization. It looks like someone has actually thought about and designed a six-year program, as opposed to the current structure that appears to be made up of one band-aid solution on top of another. I'm also glad to see Arrow of Light as simply one of six rank badges. The idea that Arrow of Light was some great culmination of Cub Scouting never made any sense to me. Any kid who joins a Pack in 5th grade and participates for six months can get Arrow of Light. Whoop-De-Do. 

The  original version of the current program had a committee of volunteers working on it  for over 2 year ( I thinkit was closer to 4)and getting input from other volunteers in the field. If you pack likes boating activities, or your Webelos/AOLs like the CASTAWAY ADVENTURE, you're welcome. I was the one that reminded a committee member that Cubs could only do boating activities at council event s at the time. And I talked up how my troop growing up used wilderness survival as a recruiting tool.

As for the hoopla, prior to June 2015, you had to earn the Bobcat and Webelos Ranks in order to earn AOL, and symbolized your readiness for Scouts. They changed that because folks thought it discouraged 5th graders from joining. 

 

11 hours ago, CubHerder said:

Requiring eight adventures for each rank I think is a good move. Frankly, many of our Den Leaders hold one meeting per adventure regardless of difficulty or whatever. Eight Adventures means at least eight Den Meetings, which at least gets them together once per month for the duration of the school year more or less.

WHOA. Each adventure was designed to take a month, not a single meeting Giving away awards is not cool, especially at the Webelos and AOL levels. Webelos and AOLs are suppose to be transitioning to Scouts, getting prepared to do things, not just their best. 

Eight adventures pushes crossover from December-March time frame to February- May time frame. Research shows that the earlier the Cross Over, the better prepared the Scouts are for Summer Camp, which is crucial for retention.

 One thing that I am worried about, and is still missing is the transition from Cubs to Scouts. Research showed it takes 18-24 months to prepare folks. If you shorten it, which is what it is looking like, retention rates will drop. I know some packs already do not begin transition until 5th grade, and see those new Scouts dropping like flies because neither the Scouts, nor the parents, are ready for the differences between the two programs. The pre-June 2015 program only had 3 or 4 activity badges required for AOL so that as soon as it was earned, they could start work on AOL, which had 5 or 6 activity badges. Again the focus wa on preparing for transition.

 

 

30 minutes ago, Armymutt said:

Does anyone have an idea of how this will work for kids already in the pipeline?  It would be pretty crappy for a kid to be looking forward to earning AOL in August 2024 because he only has 2 adventures to do over the summer while waiting for the 6 months since turning 10 to arrive.    

Sadly they will need to meet the new requirements.

[RememberSchiff]

FYI. Recommend a faster playback speed setting. 1.75  worked for me.

 

[Eagle94-A1]

Thank You  @RememberSchiff. It is sad when I get information faster her and other social media than through my council.

[Eagle1993]

3 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

One thing that I am worried about, and is still missing is the transition from Cubs to Scouts. Research showed it takes 18-24 months to prepare folks. If you shorten it, which is what it is looking like, retention rates will drop. I know some packs already do not begin transition until 5th grade, and see those new Scouts dropping like flies because neither the Scouts, nor the parents, are ready for the differences between the two programs.

That research was likely before the addition of Lions.  I just met a pack yesterday and they are desperate to transition AOLs ASAP.  Kids and parents are burnt out, limited interest left in Cub Scouts.  Pack leaders said if transition waits until May we may only see one kid.  Ive seen transitions diminished over the last 3 years.  Some of that is COVID but Pack leaders are telling me burn out it hitting during 4th grade. 

I'm not sure if the new program is better, but retention is currently really bad, not sure it can get worse.

[mrjohns2]

8 hours ago, Armymutt said:

I earned it in '86 and it was essentially the Boy Scout version of the Bobcat.  

No, you didn’t. In ‘86 it was the Scout badge. In ‘95 it became the Scout Rank. One was a joining badge and the other involves a lot more and is a rank. So, yes the badge was eliminated and replaced with a rank. In this case a joining badge of bobcat becomes an adventure. Times change. 

[mrjohns2]

3 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Eight adventures pushes crossover from December-March time frame to February- May time frame. Research shows that the earlier the Cross Over, the better prepared the Scouts are for Summer Camp, which is crucial for retention.

We will have to see the requirements. Maybe, maybe, maybe they have 8, but the AOL ones are shorter? 

[PACAN]

The scout badge became the scout rank in 2016.

[CubHerder]

7 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

The  original version of the current program had a committee of volunteers working on it  for over 2 year ( I thinkit was closer to 4)and getting input from other volunteers in the field.

Sorry, I didn't mean to offend anyone who had a part in the developing the current program.

 

7 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

If you pack likes boating activities, or your Webelos/AOLs like the CASTAWAY ADVENTURE, you're welcome.

Our scouts love the Castaway Adventure! Thanks for that!  They would love to do boating as well, but our Council basically told us that the safety rules around swimming and boating are so complex and impractical to enforce at the Cub Scout level that they basically don't allow it. Part of me believes they want to reserve those activities as selling points for the Council's Cub Scout Day Camp.

 

7 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

As for the hoopla, prior to June 2015, you had to earn the Bobcat and Webelos Ranks in order to earn AOL, and symbolized your readiness for Scouts. They changed that because folks thought it discouraged 5th graders from joining. 

It sounds like the pre-2015 model made a little more sense. In the current program, calling Arrow of Light The Highest Rank in Cub Scouting isn't consistent with the requirements to earn it.

 

8 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

WHOA. Each adventure was designed to take a month, not a single meeting Giving away awards is not cool, especially at the Webelos and AOL levels. Webelos and AOLs are suppose to be transitioning to Scouts, getting prepared to do things, not just their best. 

Yes, that is what the handbook says. But those are just words on a page, the rubber meets the road when Den Leaders and parents to donate the time to deliver the program. We are grateful to our leaders who step up even if they can't execute the program to ideal standards, and to our parents even if they can't supervise a month's worth of Cub Scout homework. 

 

[mrjohns2]

3 hours ago, PACAN said:

The scout badge became the scout rank in 2016.

Opps! Thanks for the correct. 

[Armymutt]

17 hours ago, mrjohns2 said:

No, you didn’t. In ‘86 it was the Scout badge. In ‘95 it became the Scout Rank. One was a joining badge and the other involves a lot more and is a rank. So, yes the badge was eliminated and replaced with a rank. In this case a joining badge of bobcat becomes an adventure. Times change. 

I think you're quibbling.  Changes have been made to every badge/rank requirement over the past 40 years.  I wouldn't say that my Second Class that required skill awards is different than the Second Class of today without them.  Adding essentially a totin chip, a little more in-depth knowledge of Scouts BSA, and tie two more knots.  Interestingly, Scouts no longer have to agree to live by the Oath, Law, motto, slogan, and outdoor code.  I can't say that that is a positive change.

[Armymutt]

12 hours ago, CubHerder said:

Yes, that is what the handbook says. But those are just words on a page, the rubber meets the road when Den Leaders and parents to donate the time to deliver the program. We are grateful to our leaders who step up even if they can't execute the program to ideal standards, and to our parents even if they can't supervise a month's worth of Cub Scout homework. 

 

Wait, seriously?  You regard standards as "just words on a page"?  What are you teaching the kids with that attitude?  Why bother?  Would you accept any professional regarding the laws or codes as "just words on a page"?  Attitudes start as children.  They see adults just handing out awards without regard for meeting standards and they will expect that to be the case all the time.  

[Eagle94-A1]

14 hours ago, CubHerder said:

Sorry, I didn't mean to offend anyone who had a part in the developing the current program.

No offense taken. Just wanted folks to know that volunteers were involved who actually talked to folks in the field. I was NOT (emphasis) part of the committee, but a friend was, and he got a lot, and I do mean A LOT (emphasis) of input. He was an involved Cub Scout leader for a while, but moved up to Scouts before being on the Cub Scout Committee. So he had knowledge, skills, and experience. He also knew enough that just because one council did it a certain way, doesn't mean that is the only way to do things.

 

14 hours ago, CubHerder said:

Our scouts love the Castaway Adventure! Thanks for that!  They would love to do boating as well, but our Council basically told us that the safety rules around swimming and boating are so complex and impractical to enforce at the Cub Scout level that they basically don't allow it. Part of me believes they want to reserve those activities as selling points for the Council's Cub Scout Day Camp.

Glad to hear it about CASTAWAY.  That was the highlight of my middle son's den in 5th grade. Preparing for, and doing that was what kept them motivated before crossing over in January.

More than likely your council is using the process to make it a selling point.  While it is complicated, troops do it all the time. 

 

14 hours ago, CubHerder said:

It sounds like the pre-2015 model made a little more sense. In the current program, calling Arrow of Light The Highest Rank in Cub Scouting isn't consistent with the requirements to earn it.

Yeah, there was a lot of questions about it when the material started coming out in January 2015. A lot of folks thought AOL lost its meaning. Myself included. BUT I can count on no fingers how many 5th graders joined Cub Scouts.

 

14 hours ago, CubHerder said:

Yes, that is what the handbook says. But those are just words on a page, the rubber meets the road when Den Leaders and parents to donate the time to deliver the program. We are grateful to our leaders who step up even if they can't execute the program to ideal standards, and to our parents even if they can't supervise a month's worth of Cub Scout homework. 

 

The challenge is that this is setting the Scouts  up for major challenges when they become Scouts. Further it gives the parents false expectations regarding advancement, The biggest complaint I have heard from crossed over parents is about advancement, they still expected it to be handed to their Scout.

Trust me I understand being a DL. I did it for 6 years with my hoodlums, and I was exhausted  at the end of the 6th year. And this was from someone who has been a Scouter for over 30 years at the time.

[DannyG]

I am interested to see how the new AOL requirements shakes out. Is it more of a full-year commitment? One gripe with the current AOL program is it is not a full-year program. It is a 6-month requirement, then get them ASAP into a troop. That's good for the Cubs who spent years learning about scouting. But is it enough for the kids who joined new in 5th-grade? They paid for a full-year program only to get rushed out the door to join a new unit.

I believe Cub Scouts who want to transition to Scouts BSA should start meeting regularly with their troop before they earn AOL. Maybe not every week, but perhaps once per month as their schedule allows.

14 hours ago, CubHerder said:

It sounds like the pre-2015 model made a little more sense. In the current program, calling Arrow of Light The Highest Rank in Cub Scouting isn't consistent with the requirements to earn it.

Yes and no. It is still the culmination of Cub Scouting, even if your child joins in 5th-grade and does the abbreviated version. There is extra work they have to do to catch up if they joined late. They have to earn Bobcat first; they have to earn Whittle Chip; then they have to do all of the other requirements including the things the other scouts have to do to prepare them for a Scouts BSA troop. It is a lot to accomplish, especially if you want to transition your AOL scouts into troops by early spring.

In the older model, the 5th-grader had to earn Webelos first. So they'd join with the 4th-graders and work on Webelos requirements never making it to AOL. Or if they were really motivated they would work on Webelos on their own, before joining their friends in 5th grade who were working on AOL. It only affected the few scouts who joined in 5th-grade, but there was no good fit in the program: Too late to complete the Cubs program (AOL), too soon to join a troop.