Boy in trouble

[vze3nbyb1]

I am a committee member for my son's troop and their senior patrol leader from last year has gotten into trouble breaking and entering into an elementary school twice. The second time he was caught on camera. This boy now is their quartermaster. My son is the assistant senior patrol leader and is very good friends with the now senior patrol leader.

The boys think that the one that has gotten in trouble should be removed from the troop due to all of the issues with the breaking and entering into the elementary school along with having drugs and smoking paraphernalia found on him at school. They think he is not a good example for the arrow of light boys that are coming in at the end of this year.

iI someone could give me an opinion of what we should do I'd be grateful, thank you

Edited October 20, 2023 by RememberSchiff
punctuation for clarity

[Double Eagle]

This topic is going to get a lot of mixed comments.  As a starting point, how about a meeting with the boy, parents, and key 3.  Don't need an entire committee to do this.  First see what the scout and parents have to say about it and how scouting is affected.  They may see it as a time to step back and address the family issue.  There is no mention of law enforcement or conviction.  Without those, there is a lot of wiggle room within scouting.  I've had a few troublesome Scouts and started addressing the issue that way.

I like to remind adults and scouts...There are Scouts that need Scouting, and there are Scouts Scouting needs.  

[InquisitiveScouter]

Even if there is law enforcement involvement and a conviction, you should not "kick him out" without addressing the behavior and giving him a chance to mend his ways.

Have a Scoutmaster Conference with the Scout.  Focus on the behavior, rather than the person.  Explain that his behavior is un-Scout-like, and violates his Scout Oath and Scout Law.  Explain that his behavior has consequences outside of family and school, and will extend to the Troop.

Tell him if he is involved in future incidents, then he will be removed from the Troop.

Recommend the SPL remove him from his current role in a Position of Responsibility (POR), for a defined length of time, say, 3 months.  If, at the end of that time, without further incident, he may be restored to a POR

Any further incidents, and his Troop membership is terminated (depending on the infraction).  You might also tell him that you will recommend that the council terminate his membership in BSA, as well.

Give him a chance with discipline.

Edited October 20, 2023 by InquisitiveScouter

[fred8033]

40 minutes ago, Double Eagle said:

There are Scouts that need Scouting...

This is a phrase that makes me stop.  It's well intentioned and wishing nothing but good for everyone. 

It's also very dangerous and can kill a troop.  You can endanger scouts (teaching drugs or other edge behavior). You drive good kids away.  Your troop gets a bad reputation that scares future families away.

My view is behavior needs to be within scouting boundaries.  No drugs.  No criminal activity.  (etc, etc).  Youth outside that boundary are beyond scouting.  Yes, scouting could help them, but you can't accept responsibility for them and you can't risk the whole troop.  If the youth returns to good boundaries, then the youth can be in the troop.  Until then, the youth needs to move on.

Every situation has nuances.  You know this kid.  Your scouts know the kid.  It's really on those in-the-know.  ... the fact your scouts say the kid needs to move on is a good indication. 

To be honest ... the kid may already have moved on beyond scouting.  The kid may not care about his scouting future. 

Edited October 20, 2023 by fred8033

[NDW5332]

6 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

This is a phrase that makes me stop.  It's well intentioned and wishing nothing but good for everyone. 

It's also very dangerous and can kill a troop. 

Had an instance in our Cub Pack when I was CC. One Scout attacked another during a meeting and wouldn't get off until he was pulled off by his mother. A lot of people wanted him kicked out of the pack. We went to Council ask about it, being relatively inexperienced with these types of disciplinary matters.  We scheduled a meeting with the boy's mom, myself, the DL, CM, the UC, The COR/IH, and our Roundtable commissioner for good measure.  Time comes for the meeting, everyone from the pack is there.  UC doesn't show up, RT Commish doesn't show up, Mom comes with her new boyfriend. He chews us out saying the kid that got attacked should toughen up and he probably had it coming (This guy also thought it was a good idea to bring a 12" knife on a Wolf hike in the local forest preserve).  The COR/IH (the pastor of our CO) said the boy reminded him of his own troubled son and that Scouting would be just the thing for him.  "All is forgiven" not even a suspension.  A couple of families quit over this. Fast forward a couple of months to our Pack's participation in our town's Christmas parade.  Our pack is getting staged for the parade.  An older woman was parking her car nearby starts to get out. The Scout in question unprovoked, just took off for this car and started punching the woman in the face as she was getting out.  Our CM said "that's it" you're out immediately. Council was like "what took so long?" I was like, you guys did nothing to help us before and we got hung out to dry by our COR. 

[MikeS72]

2 hours ago, Double Eagle said:

There is no mention of law enforcement or conviction.

OP stated that this is the second time that this individual has done this.  He was caught on camera committing a criminal act.  It was also mentioned that drugs were found on him at school.  As a juvenile you may not likely be aware of any law enforcement involvement, but I find it hard to believe that there has been none, particularly when involving drugs at school.

The youth leaders of the troop have expressed their concern that the boy will have a negative effect on new and current members.  

It all comes down to whether you are willing to take the risk of losing members who either themselves do not want to associate with someone who has committed multiple crimes or whose parents will pull their sons out of scouting.

[Eagle94-A1]

I have been known to give people a second chance. But if my Scouts are saying something, I would listen. I have found that Scouts know more about what is going on with each other than adults do. If they are concerned. You should be too.

[skeptic]

While we are well beyond "Follow Me Boys" today, and in this incident, IF there is a way to try to guide the youth, while restricting his Scouting interactions, that might be a good course.  In our unit long ago we had two youth get into serious trouble with the police on the edge.  As it happened both were in POR, one the SPL, the other his assistant.  It was at an OA function and I got phone calls in the early morning.  One parent had to go to the camp to take them home.  I spent a number of hours on the phone with committee people and the council reps for clarity.  The boys were removed from their POR immediately and met with a committee of parents who made a very specific way for them to move forward.  The time frame was six months, and included specific actions and severe restrictions on their doing anything special, but serious attention to Spirit.  No advancement during that time, apology letters to all involved in the incident, including parents and myself as SM, along with other adults involved.  I had to review them monthly.  Well, the ring leader, the SPL chose to ignore it all and did not follow up, dropping out instead.  The other one fulfilled his "sentence" to the letter, and eventually became Eagle.  At his Eagle board he would have been asked about this, but he himself brought it up almost immediately, discussing the effects the situation had on him, and how he appreciated his being put into that position of taking full responsibility.  The other youth went on to get into drugs and other issues, saddly.  We need to try to do what is best for all, but it is never easy, and obviously we also need parental support, which the one had and the other did not.  Finding the likely best path is hard much of the time, and we may find ourselves frustrated and upset.  Ultimately, we can only do what seems the best thing for all, keeping the youth and the unit in mind and hoping parents will cooperate.  Knee jerk responses though are NOT usually the answer, other than for safety at the moment, like the fighting that may occur on occasion.  Try to never simply "throw them away", but also to not just ignore them and their peers in the unit, and even outside it in a way.  When we win one, it is wonderful, and sometimes the win may never be known, while a youth may approach you a decade or more later and shake your hand.  It has happened to me, and I thought he was lost.  We often make a difference and never know it I think.

[Eagledad]

3 hours ago, Double Eagle said:

This topic is going to get a lot of mixed comments.  As a starting point, how about a meeting with the boy, parents, and key 3. 

This is a really good suggestion.

When I think back of the several troubled scouts we experienced, the parents were the key to our decisions, successes and failures. Some parents are the cause of the problem and cause further unforeseen complications (drama). Some parents are all-in for helping provide a positive environment to give their son positives role models and experiences of good behavior. It is remarkable to witness the change. A few become great adults.

I taught in adult leadership that scouters HAVE to see themselves only as part of the parents team to develop their kids into adults. You are just a team member, Nothing more. Being a Scoutmaster does not raise your influence higher than the teacher, Sunday school teacher, coach or even the parents themselves. So, if the parents don't want to respect the situation as it is, then you can expect no support, and likely a lot of hassle. 

Start with talking to the parents.

Barry

[InquisitiveScouter]

3 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

It is remarkable to witness the change. A few become great adults.

Yes, I agree!  It is REMARKABLE when the parents finally become great adults 😛  😜 

[vze3nbyb1]

We have had a meeting once already with nothing being done and now we have new parents and members joining that are not happy about this situation and are thinking about removing their boys from the troop also last time the SM and Cc didn't not inform the committee of this issue and a parent that is familiar with this boy has brought it forward council was NOT notified or the chapter Rep 

[fred8033]

@vze3nbyb1 SM & CC not informing committee may have been their attempt to keep sensitive information from becoming gossip and overwhelming a kid already in trouble.  I can respect that.  BUT, the challenge is it sounds like the whole troop knew or were about to find out.  It's really not a good situation.

Edited October 20, 2023 by fred8033

[vze3nbyb1]

No it's not and we're not sure what actions if any we can invoke we have an upcoming event to a corn maze and people feel this boy should not be allowed to go due to this issue

 

[qwazse]

4 hours ago, vze3nbyb1 said:

No it's not and we're not sure what actions if any we can invoke we have an upcoming event to a corn maze and people feel this boy should not be allowed to go due to this issue

 

I think it’s fair to tell the scout that his behavior in public places disqualifies him from participating in the corn maze.

Then you need to get advice from the committee on how to handle this. IMHO, suspension is an option.

A scout like this owes his fellows an apology for not representing, but he has to that conclusion on his own.

[T2Eagle]

The best thing to do always in situations like this is to quietly get good information from people who should have it; don't act based on "what everybody knows."

I would suggest your first step is to talk to your CC and SM.  They apparently know something about this, and the only thing you're sure of about their involvement so far is that they didn't involve the rest of the committee.  Respectfully, you don't know more than that;  maybe they have a full plan in place, maybe they've already met with the parents, or your COR, or both.  Your son and his friend's concern are admirable and shouldn't be discounted,  But they also don't know much more than what is on the surface. 

The actual options for your troop are the entire spectrum from he's out of here, to we're comfortable that the many other adults in this young man's life have the situation in hand and we're going to let those actions take their course rather than thinking we should act independently.