An interview with much info and with responsible discussion, at least in my view.

[NDW5332]

About 10 years ago, I worked our Pack's recruitment table at a back-to-school night.  One prospective parent said, "My son wants to do Cub Scouts, but I'm not sure it's safe enough for him."  I explained explained that there are barriers to abuse, 2-deep leadership, no one on one contact with adults, everyone is trained, etc...  She then gives me, "I don't just mean abuse, how are you going to keep my son safe." I added that as a parent of a Tiger, they would be present at everything and could see for themselves what goes on. Camping is family camping.  The family never signed up, and despite the child's desire to join Scouting, the parent's were against it, and "Safety" was "The Reason" they gave their son why he couldn't do it, so we, Scouting" were the bad guys,.

[yknot]

1 hour ago, NDW5332 said:

About 10 years ago, I worked our Pack's recruitment table at a back-to-school night.  One prospective parent said, "My son wants to do Cub Scouts, but I'm not sure it's safe enough for him."  I explained explained that there are barriers to abuse, 2-deep leadership, no one on one contact with adults, everyone is trained, etc...  She then gives me, "I don't just mean abuse, how are you going to keep my son safe." I added that as a parent of a Tiger, they would be present at everything and could see for themselves what goes on. Camping is family camping.  The family never signed up, and despite the child's desire to join Scouting, the parent's were against it, and "Safety" was "The Reason" they gave their son why he couldn't do it, so we, Scouting" were the bad guys,.

That's a perception issue that the child sexual abuse history has obscured: public perceptions of overall competence and program safety is not great.  For example, this summer, some camps were desperately advertising for volunteers at their shooting ranges by stating 'no training needed, we'll train you'.  Did not instill confidence in the program overall no matter how good the RSO might have been. 

[OaklandAndy]

1 hour ago, yknot said:

That's a perception issue that the child sexual abuse history has obscured: public perceptions of overall competence and program safety is not great.  For example, this summer, some camps were desperately advertising for volunteers at their shooting ranges by stating 'no training needed, we'll train you'.  Did not instill confidence in the program overall no matter how good the RSO might have been. 

That depends on the geographic area I would think. My parents in my pack had no idea there was a lawsuit going on until I told them about it (I'm very transparent about things that go in in the scouting world). They didn't seem to care either since our program is pretty safe. It could be our small-town community feel though. 

[yknot]

8 minutes ago, OaklandAndy said:

That depends on the geographic area I would think. My parents in my pack had no idea there was a lawsuit going on until I told them about it (I'm very transparent about things that go in in the scouting world). They didn't seem to care either since our program is pretty safe. It could be our small-town community feel though. 

I think some places are lucky and have a very competent CM or SM, or a well run unit, or a functional council. That can be a very mixed bag around the country though.

[SSScout]

21 hours ago, AwakeEnergyScouter said:

At least right now, my husband definitely needs to hear more about how his scout will be safe in scouting. He's still cracking cynical CSA jokes. He's openly hoping that our cub scout doesn't cross over. 

Families aren't necessarily all in or all out.

There it is.  Dr. Bourke and company not withstanding, it is up to THE PARENTS, and everyone else to see that what is RIGHT happens.  The Guidelines are just that, GUIDELINES.   If the people who WATCH and SEE don't speak up, don't say something, the GUIDELINES mean zilch.  

[Eagledad]

1 hour ago, SSScout said:

There it is.  Dr. Bourke and company not withstanding, it is up to THE PARENTS, and everyone else to see that what is RIGHT happens.  The Guidelines are just that, GUIDELINES.   If the people who WATCH and SEE don't speak up, don't say something, the GUIDELINES mean zilch.  

Yep. If parents are waiting for more safety policies, I can't imagine what they would be other than reporting the incidents at higher levels so they don't get covered up. We had a lot of discussions here about safety improvements and nothing significant was brought up, mostly because BSA policies are pretty good. Funny, you don't hear parents being worried about schools when sexual abuse is report every week in the news.

I will say I have observed parents of units hesitating to act on issues of adults making bad decisions. Not just abuses, but issues where adults need correction. I think it's because they don' t want to get involved being a bad guy. I have watched these things ignored mainly because nobody will act. It is concerning and I spoke about it often adults in training. Leaders need to stand up and protect scouts from adults making bad discissions.

Barry

[DannyG]

On 10/27/2023 at 8:40 AM, NDW5332 said:

About 10 years ago, I worked our Pack's recruitment table at a back-to-school night.  One prospective parent said, "My son wants to do Cub Scouts, but I'm not sure it's safe enough for him."  I explained explained that there are barriers to abuse, 2-deep leadership, no one on one contact with adults, everyone is trained, etc...  She then gives me, "I don't just mean abuse, how are you going to keep my son safe." I added that as a parent of a Tiger, they would be present at everything and could see for themselves what goes on. Camping is family camping.  The family never signed up, and despite the child's desire to join Scouting, the parent's were against it, and "Safety" was "The Reason" they gave their son why he couldn't do it, so we, Scouting" were the bad guys,.

There was nothing you could do to convince the parents otherwise. They refused to see it for themselves. It sounds as if they did not want to have any involvement in scouting. Too bad for the child, they were not going to be a good fit.

[NDW5332]

On 10/27/2023 at 1:08 PM, SSScout said:

There it is.  Dr. Bourke and company not withstanding, it is up to THE PARENTS, and everyone else to see that what is RIGHT happens.  The Guidelines are just that, GUIDELINES.   If the people who WATCH and SEE don't speak up, don't say something, the GUIDELINES mean zilch.  

I like to call it "The ReasonTM" A Scout/youth is interested in Scouting and join Cub Scouts/Scouts BSA, but the parent doesn't want to be the bad guy and tell the kid "no", they need The ReasonTM so their child won't want to keep asking to join or keep attending.  Some "Reasons" I've had to deal with:  not safe enough;  What do you mean this week's den meeting is at so-and-so's house?; it rained this weekend and you still kept camping; the Cub Adventure Day the pack went to served cheese pizza and my son only eats pepperoni. I've got a few more on the Troop side, but it was more  far more prevalent on the Cub side.

[Tron]

On 10/27/2023 at 1:08 PM, SSScout said:

There it is.  Dr. Bourke and company not withstanding, it is up to THE PARENTS, and everyone else to see that what is RIGHT happens.  The Guidelines are just that, GUIDELINES.   If the people who WATCH and SEE don't speak up, don't say something, the GUIDELINES mean zilch.  

Dealing with this right now; got my district on an issue at a local troop because several of the leaders refuse to accept that they can't call and have 1v1 phone conversations with scouts. 

[qwazse]

On 10/26/2023 at 2:43 PM, AwakeEnergyScouter said:

At least right now, my husband definitely needs to hear more about how his scout will be safe in scouting. He's still cracking cynical CSA jokes. He's openly hoping that our cub scout doesn't cross over. 

Families aren't necessarily all in or all out.

Your husband is right to be concerned. We scramble to be as accountable to crossover parents as possible. Any troop you all may consider should do the same.

[BetterWithCheddar]

The easiest way to ensure a child's activities are safe is to volunteer.

You don't have to be a registered leader to show up and help ensure kids are having good, clean fun. My son's other big activity is basketball and I have no desire to be a coach; however, I don't mind being a "coach's helper," parking lot attendant, usher, etc. This isn't a big time commitment. I was already planning on being there and reading a book in the corner. If you need me to put out some cones, I'll gladly put out some cones.

[Eagle94-A1]

4 hours ago, BetterWithCheddar said:

The easiest way to ensure a child's activities are safe is to volunteer.

You don't have to be a registered leader to show up and help ensure kids are having good, clean fun.....

One of the biggest concerns many parents have in my experience is camping. And now they cannot camp with Scouts, Sea Scouts, or Venturers as all adults MUST (emphasis)be registered. And even without the council add on fees, that can be prohibitive to some families.

At least National listened to Cub Scout folks who stated that if the new rule applied to Cub Scout camping, it would destroy the program. I am glad family camping is still allowed without restrictions at the Cub level. 

[Tron]

1 hour ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

One of the biggest concerns many parents have in my experience is camping. And now they cannot camp with Scouts, Sea Scouts, or Venturers as all adults MUST (emphasis)be registered. And even without the council add on fees, that can be prohibitive to some families.

At least National listened to Cub Scout folks who stated that if the new rule applied to Cub Scout camping, it would destroy the program. I am glad family camping is still allowed without restrictions at the Cub level. 

Good points but not all troops have this problem. 2 local troops (to me) do have CO's that provide funds to the troops to help run the program; the question for parents in troops that are getting financial assistance from their CO's is what is that assistance going to? 

[MikeS72]

6 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

At least National listened to Cub Scout folks who stated that if the new rule applied to Cub Scout camping, it would destroy the program. I am glad family camping is still allowed without restrictions at the Cub level. 

Not quite without restrictions.   (bold underlined italics added by me)

Cub Scout Programs – Overnight Exception:   Cub Scout parents or legal guardians taking part in an overnight Cub Scout program with their own child or legal ward are not required to register as leaders. All adults must review the “How to Protect your Children from Child Abuse: A Parent’s Guide” that can be found in the front of each Cub Scout Handbook. In addition, the parent or legal guardian must be accompanied by a registered leader at any time they are with youth members other than their own child/ward.  All other overnight adults must be currently registered in an adult fee required position.

[AwakeEnergyScouter]

So I have an answer from my husband, finally. For context, he was a cub scout briefly but quit after getting weird vibes from the (female) leader, and has not come along to anything scouting-related other than a Pinewood Derby and a campout two weeks ago.

"You know that annoying course I had to take before the campout [YPT, we require all parents to take it if they're going camping with us]? I had no idea that existed."

We have to keep explaining because a lot of people have actually never heard about anything we've done to improve scout safety. We may have heard it ad nauseam, and it's true some parents just aren't that interested and use lack of safety as an out when their child asks, but there's still parents who have no idea. People who think they know (former scouts) may never seek out the information even though it's super googlable. But we can't stop making it accessible and easy to find, as well as clearly maintained.