Units should charge "all-in" dues for operations and council/national fees.

[InquisitiveScouter]

26 minutes ago, DuctTape said:

The rear-view mirror has been for a while now the only place where National and Council fees provided any real value to a member or unit. IFF BSA is going to continue into the future, tbe entire business plan needs to be reformulated. IMO, HQ and Councils need to almost eliminated.

The entire structure needs to be reversed (as does most units). 

Patrol/Den is at the Top. All other bureaucratic groups sole purpose is to support the patrol/den.

All revisions of handbooks and mB pamphlets can be handled by volunteers. Many of us have been willing to do thus for decades, but have been shut out.

HQ needs to be the Volunteer Board and have near-zero staff. There should be no national fee. HQ should exist to leverage decreased costs to members and units for insurance, etc... These costs get paid directly to insurer. (Snark comment... If HQ needs funding, they can sell popcorn).

Councils should exist solely as a "gathering" of units. No need for Professionals. 

 

End of rambling thoughts.

 

@DuctTapefor National Commissioner!!

29 minutes ago, BetterWithCheddar said:

I find marking up popcorn by 300% to be immoral. I'd prefer to teach my son salesmanship with a box of $2 candy bars.

At the very least, unethical...

[qwazse]

34 minutes ago, BetterWithCheddar said:

I find marking up popcorn by 300% to be immoral. I'd prefer to teach my son salesmanship with a box of $2 candy bars.

I did not write anything about edible bio-fuel because the troop no longer participates. But we’re capitalists. If a kid can hawk a couple hundred orders, there’s hope for a lucrative sales career.

[Tron]

On 10/12/2023 at 1:44 PM, dk516 said:

@Cburkhardtwhat do you actually pay with the $400 that you calculate? We finally got to stop comparing ourselves to band, sports and everything else and always advertising what a bargain Scouting is because this is only partially true and highly depends on how you look at.

Between National, Council and Troop dues, our Scouts spend $230 for Youth and $90 for adults respectively. Monthly campouts with our Troop probably average about $35 a month * 10 months which is another $350. So, that's $570 a year for the "right to participate" and some monthly outings and couple patches throughout the year. This is twice of what our High School charges for their varsity sports team to participate the season (I purposely do not account for gear since I do not do that for Scouts either in this scenario). 

Now that's just the "common" stuff the unit does. Add $550 for our Council Summer Camp (In-council discount, short travel distance, etc.) which brings us to $1'120 for an average 1st or 2nd year Scout for a year of Scouting. 

Now let's look at the "must do for the full Scouting experience stuff" for our older Scouts: $1'800 for 12 days at Philmont; $2'500-3'000 to travel to Sea Base or Northern Tier or $3'500 for the Council contingent to go the Jambo. Not even looking at the cost to go to World Jambo. $3'000 is more than what I personally account for a cool family holiday and is way on par with what a sports season cost.

Then we need adults on top of all of this which is time spent volunteering, time needed to take off jobs (holidays or unpaid) and cost spent because even though adult attendance is mandatory for YPT and minimum crew requirements, they still pay most if not all of the cost incurred.

Looking at my own family and many families in our units that are very active and keep the Troop rolling, there are many where Scouting becomes a $10'000 annual cost factor for a family with older Scouts. 

So the often sung statement that Scouting is a bargain, or as our Council used to advertise it "the cost of one cup of coffee from a major coffee chain a month" is really only partially true. And yes, everything else is also getting more expensive but I know many that are starting the weigh the cost / benefits and the scales are not tipping in favor of the program.

Your numbers seem quite accurate; however, the depiction of needing to do so much is not. The problem might not be the cost of scouting, but the expectation that scouts go SO far above and beyond to qualify for rank advancement, OA membership, etc ... Do I want my kids to go to Philmont and other high adventure bases? Yes, do they have to? No. Over the span of potentially 7-8 years of being a scout in a Troop most scouts only need to camp 3 nights a year. I think bad units make scouting too expensive; poorly trained leaders adding to the standard make scouting too expensive. In my area the average scout could easily get by and make it to Eagle on $300 a year if their unit doesn't add to the standard. 

[fred8033]

On 10/16/2023 at 10:53 AM, Tron said:

... most scouts only need to camp 3 nights a year ....

I'd question the value of scouting if that's the average.  For active scouts in our troop, the average was closer to 15 to 20.  Summer camp 5 nights.  5 to 10 of the offered monthly campouts.  3 nights a year does not sound like fun scouting.

 

On 10/16/2023 at 10:53 AM, Tron said:

... get by and make it to Eagle on $300 a year if their unit doesn't add to the standard. 

I really hate thinking that way.  Yes possible, but what is the value of scouting then.

[swilliams]

I loathe fundraising.  It wouldn't be too terrible if it were just for scouting, but with active kids it's non-stop, year-round.  Scouts twice a year, marching band basket raffle and Gertrude Hawk, lacrosse cornhole tournament and bagels, swimming (both winter high school and summer club swim) swim-a-long pledges and winter sports night donations...  It's too much.  I refuse to continue asking our neighbors and friends to give money, even if they're getting something out of it. 

At our last committee meeting we had a loooong discussion of how much we would ask for our dues, how many adults we were going to have to register, how to pay for the adults and the increased National and Council dues and how much fundraising we could realistically expect.  We decided to make the dues $200, drop two or three committee members from the charter, and continue to pay for adult participants from Troop funds.  We do charge per trip, and I want to see us come up with some trips that are close to free - state campgrounds, stealth camping off the AT for older scouts, etc. 

Maybe even teach them to make acorn flour and forage for dandelion roots and chickweed. 🤣

[yknot]

45 minutes ago, swilliams said:

I loathe fundraising.  It wouldn't be too terrible if it were just for scouting, but with active kids it's non-stop, year-round.  Scouts twice a year, marching band basket raffle and Gertrude Hawk, lacrosse cornhole tournament and bagels, swimming (both winter high school and summer club swim) swim-a-long pledges and winter sports night donations...  It's too much.  I refuse to continue asking our neighbors and friends to give money, even if they're getting something out of it. 

At our last committee meeting we had a loooong discussion of how much we would ask for our dues, how many adults we were going to have to register, how to pay for the adults and the increased National and Council dues and how much fundraising we could realistically expect.  We decided to make the dues $200, drop two or three committee members from the charter, and continue to pay for adult participants from Troop funds.  We do charge per trip, and I want to see us come up with some trips that are close to free - state campgrounds, stealth camping off the AT for older scouts, etc. 

Maybe even teach them to make acorn flour and forage for dandelion roots and chickweed. 🤣

Kid fundraising is indeed out of control and I have also become increasingly sensitive to the financial and time challenges faced by some families. There is a lot of free stuff out there and sometimes it helps to get off the unit/district/roundtable/council/BSA bandwagon/herd and scout around for random stuff you can find on your own. I don't know what level you are, cubs or troop, but there is a 4th grade free national parks pass that can be used to get 4th graders and several family members into most national properties, not just parks, for free. Many YMCA's offer free year long trial memberships to middle school age students and we have been able to use the connection to get free or very cheap access to Y facilities, like an after hours pool session. Kids Bowl Free is offered during the summer. Check out all your local tourism and leisure industry boards to see what kinds of youth events and deals they offer. A ski region near us had a winter kid pass for late afternoon/night skiing that was dirt cheap. Combined with someone finding a nearby church basement, it made for a very cheap winter ski camp in. We also developed a list of municipal, private camp, land trust, and private property sites that would allow us to camp for free mostly off season.  I've done free youth events with local chapters of Audubon, Trout Unlimited, Ducks Unlimited, the national weather service, the US Patent and Trademark office, etc.