Sanitizer: Bleach or Quat/Steramine tabs?

[DannyG]

I am curious what do your units typically use in the sanitizer bucket to clean your dishes? My current unit swears by the old liquid bleach bottles - add a few drops to the sanitize water. I have camped with a different unit who carries a bottle of Steramine tablets in their supplies. It is smaller, easier to pack and lighter to carry. It also seems easier to measure: add one tablet per gallon, instead of a few splashes of bleach and guessing if you got the correct amount.  I suppose the only downside is cost; bleach is cheaper.

What sanitizer do you prefer to wash your dishes and why?

[qwazse]

We use soap, bleach, and sun. (That last one can be hard to find.)

Backpacking, I just carry soap. I look for something biodegradable without dyes.

[T2Eagle]

The tablets, we had a group of adults who among their many other transgressions would use WAY too much beach.  The tablets, as you say, can be measured pretty accurately.  The additional cost over time is pretty small, and a small bottle of tablets is easier to deal with than a bottle of liquid bleach. 

When backpacking we rarely bothered with sanitizing.  You can have long debates, and there have been some on this forum, about the actual need for sanitizing.

[DannyG]

13 hours ago, T2Eagle said:

The tablets, we had a group of adults who among their many other transgressions would use WAY too much beach.  The tablets, as you say, can be measured pretty accurately.  The additional cost over time is pretty small, and a small bottle of tablets is easier to deal with than a bottle of liquid bleach. 

When backpacking we rarely bothered with sanitizing.  You can have long debates, and there have been some on this forum, about the actual need for sanitizing.

I agree, tablets seem easier to deal with.

Every scout eventually has a horror story from the latrine when they didn't sanitize. Like putting the rainfly on your tent, better to be safe than sorry.

[InquisitiveScouter]

Washing dishes and washing hands... two of the most difficult habits to inculcate in youth AND ADULTS!!

I could tell you horror stories of military units in the field who didn't do these properly, either.

Edited September 13, 2023 by InquisitiveScouter

[mrjohns2]

Tablets. Easy to get on Amazon. It seems that the health departments are more on the ammonia tablets as well. 

[InquisitiveScouter]

Be advised, with either tablets or liquid bleach, you must make sure you are using it in accordance with the label. 

For example, this product, Evolve, available at WalMart, 

https://www.evolveproducts.com/product/evolve-ultra-concentrated-bleach-tablets-32-count/

specifically says, "NOT FOR SANITIZATION OR DISINFECTION"

Steramine, however, https://www.sanitize.com/products/

says "For Sanitizing Food Contact Surfaces"

Do your homework...

Also, make sure you are using a product consistent with the manufacturers instructions.  With liquid bleach, for example, a rose is not a rose IS NOT a rose.

Take the Clorox Liquid Bleach line, for instance.   You must be careful.   They have at least five different liquid bleach products on the market:

No-Splash Formula (do not use!!)  (For laundry and non-porous surfaces only)

Outdoor Bleach (do not use!!) (this is concentrated stuff... not for use on your dishes)

Disinfecting Bleach (you can use this one!!)   the label says "To Sanitize Food-Contact Surfaces"

- They recommend using this one... https://www.clorox.com/learn/how-to-sanitize-dishes-with-bleach/

- You can also purify water with this one...  https://www.clorox.com/learn/water-purification-how-much-bleach-purify-water-for-drinking/

Performance Bleach (you can use this one!!) the label says "To Sanitize Food-Contact Surfaces"

Germicidal Bleach (you can use this one!!)  the label says "To Sanitize Food-Contact Surfaces"

Of course, never use a scented bleach product on your dishes...  yes, they'll be lemony fresh, or lavendery (?) fresh, but those chemicals left behind on your dishes are not for consumption!!

We use tablets for the most part, but we have a small bottle of liquid bleach in the trailer as a backup for when the QM hasn't checked to see if we have adequate tablets 😜 (This is a health and safety issue, so we intervene here...)

For backpacking, we try to plan meals requiring no dishes.  We ask our Scouts to bring a metal spoon and cup.  Boil water in your metal cup to sterilize it.  Spoons get dipped in boiling water for sterilizing.

Here's a primer for more info: https://foodsafepal.com/approved-sanitizers-foodservice/

Bottom line:  "sanitize" means reducing pathogens to safe levels..., "disinfect" means kills all or most..., "sterilize" means kills all!!!

Edited September 13, 2023 by InquisitiveScouter

[InquisitiveScouter]

59 minutes ago, mrjohns2 said:

Tablets. Easy to get on Amazon. It seems that the health departments are more on the ammonia tablets as well. 

Word of advice... Use one or the other in your Troop kit... never bring both.  You are asking for trouble if Scouts mix bleach tablets with ammonia products.

Ever hear of chloramine??  https://www.healthline.com/health/bleach-and-ammonia

[mrjohns2]

4 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Word of advice... Use one or the other in your Troop kit... never bring both.  You are asking for trouble if Scouts mix bleach tablets with ammonia products.

It sounds like you are not following your own advice. We don’t bring bleach, but you said that your troop does. Hummmm…..

[T2Eagle]

1 hour ago, mrjohns2 said:

It sounds like you are not following your own advice. We don’t bring bleach, but you said that your troop does. Hummmm…..

Steramine tablets are not the ammonia tablets you mentioned.  

[InquisitiveScouter]

3 hours ago, mrjohns2 said:

It sounds like you are not following your own advice. We don’t bring bleach, but you said that your troop does. Hummmm…..

Ahhh... I see how I got things crossed up for you...

@DannyG mentioned Steramine specifically.... so I was responding to that.  And yes @T2Eagle, Steramine is a quaternary ammonium product, so do not use with chlorine bleach.

We bring bleach tablets.

Apologize for the disorganized thoughts...

Edited September 14, 2023 by InquisitiveScouter

[mrjohns2]

9 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

We bring bleach tablets.

Ah! Good. Which kind do you use? We couldn’t find any that seemed to be “designed” for dishes, but since we found the others, we stopped looking. 

[InquisitiveScouter]

1 hour ago, mrjohns2 said:

Ah! Good. Which kind do you use? We couldn’t find any that seemed to be “designed” for dishes, but since we found the others, we stopped looking. 

BTF Chlor Tabs   https://www.webstaurantstore.com/national-chemicals-inc-13002-btf-chlor-tab-bar-glass-sanitizer-tablet-100-count/99913002A.html

We have a volunteer who runs a restaurant supply...  he gets them wholesale, and donates when needed. 

Check with your local restaurant supply... they might sell them at cost to a Scout Troop. 

One tablet per wash basin of rinse water, marked to two gallons, which gives more than 100 ppm minimum for recommended (depends on which source you use) chlorine concentration.  I think the bottle says 1 tab per 2 1/2 gal water gives 100 ppm.  Scouts will often not fill to the basin mark, but that just makes the concentration stronger, which I am OK with. 

As long as they keep the sanitizing water "clean" this solution lasts all day, so could be good for three meals.  I think directions say good for 24 hours?? 

BTW, tossing out dishwater ought to go like this...

1.  Rainbow toss your rinse water.

2.  Screen gunk out of wash water (we use old window screen) while pouring into empty rinse basin.  This goes in garbage...

3.  Rainbow toss  wash water.

4.  Pour half your sanitize water in each empty basin.  Let sit for a few minutes. 

5.  Rainbow toss.  Now all basins are clean.  (If your wash basin was especially yucky, dump out the wash basin first, then use the sanitize water from the rinse basin for a second soak.)

Postscript:  Advertised price for BTF puts them at about 27 cents per tablet.

Steramine advertised on Amazon is 6 cents per tablet (with Prime).  1 tab per gallon.  Might be a more thrifty solution if you have to buy.  (Don't know how long solution lasts.  I do not want to dive down the rabbit hole of test strips. 😛 )

Post-postscript:  Dishes usually aren't the culprit when things go bad.  Two highest causes of gastro problems are unwashed hands, and poor food prep practices.  Your time is better spent teaching/supervising those than worrying about bleach or ammonia concentrations!

Edited September 14, 2023 by InquisitiveScouter

[qwazse]

On 9/13/2023 at 9:03 AM, DannyG said:

… Every scout eventually has a horror story from the latrine when they didn't sanitize. Like putting the rainfly on your tent, better to be safe than sorry.

Those horror stories will manifest regardless of the tools that you provide.

On 9/12/2023 at 7:32 PM, T2Eagle said:

The tablets, we had a group of adults who among their many other transgressions would use WAY too much beach.  ….

File: adults ruin everything! I do think we have a generation of adults who don’t know how to measure anything.

25 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

… Post-postscript:  Dishes usually aren't the culprit when things go bad.  Two highest causes of gastro problems are unwashed hands, and poor food prep practices.  Your time is better spent teaching/supervising those than worrying about bleach or ammonia concentrations!

Do take time at a troop meeting to teach hand-washing. Alcohol base requires 20 seconds; soap and water 30 seconds. Singing “happy birthday twice is a good metric. I recommend the glee club dirge version: “Happy birthday. Happy birthday. Sin and sorrow everywhere, death and dying and despair. Happy birthday. Happy Birthday.”

But, I find what churns most of my scouts’ stomachs is a failure to drain grease from their meat while cooking. Demonstrating that at a meeting where you all cook up a bunch of sliders is a worthwhile exercise. Showing scouts how to manage heating and seasoning of different kinds of frying pans will also pay off in clean-up time!

Then, there’s the scout who eats seconds of everything then wakes up in the middle of the night with incredible stomach aches. I have yet to find a fix for that.

[DannyG]

On 9/14/2023 at 10:56 AM, qwazse said:

File: adults ruin everything! I do think we have a generation of adults who don’t know how to measure anything.

YES! Mine too. They always add too much soap to the wash basin so the rinse water turns into soap , and they don't know how to measure sanitizer either. I am fascinated the scouts get it right most of the time but the parents never do.