What do you do with leaderless dens?

[Armymutt]

Our pack has an age old issue, but I've never seen it this bad.  Last year's Lion Den has two members.  We told the parents that someone will need to be the DL next year.  Well, next year is here and neither is stepping up.  Last year's Wolf den lost its leader in February.  He had finished up all the requirements.  The parents have had 8 months to determine who the next leader will be and none have stepped forward.  Last year's Tiger den has three members.  One of the Scouts has a dad as the CC and mom as the treasurer,  The other two sets of parents will not step up, so the CC will be running meetings on Saturdays at home because he's 600 miles away during the week.  At least that den is covered.  What do we do about the other two dens?  I reminded the parents in July and got no response.  At this point, the leadership is pretty much done with this unit.  The Webelos DL has two years left.  As does the CM and secretary, unless their youngest can start behaving.  CC and treasurer have a few more years, and the ACM has a Lion coming onboard.  

[AwakeEnergyScouter]

We're testing having all the den meetings on the same evening to both help with YPT requirements and to make it possible for leaders to try to run more than one den meeting at a time. I can let you know how that goes shortly.

We have very uneven leadership coverage, so while it's a bit crazy, it's not as crazy as it might sound at first. Some dens have two leaders with active parents that could step in to supervise something ongoing, and one den has no one. So, the plan for the leaderless den is basically tag-teaming.

[DannyG]

22 hours ago, Armymutt said:

 What do we do about the other two dens?  I reminded the parents in July and got no response.  At this point, the leadership is pretty much done with this unit.  

The best way is assign somebody the job and watch them handle it. Volun-told, we call it.

Then do nothing? If they don't have a den leader to plan a meeting, they don't meet. Sorry to say it. Unless current leadership steps up to fill the gaps, it sounds like a dying unit. If they refuse to run a den meeting now, who is going to lead the unit when the current leadership moves on?

21 hours ago, AwakeEnergyScouter said:

We're testing having all the den meetings on the same evening to both help with YPT requirements and to make it possible for leaders to try to run more than one den meeting at a time. I can let you know how that goes shortly.

We have very uneven leadership coverage, so while it's a bit crazy, it's not as crazy as it might sound at first. Some dens have two leaders with active parents that could step in to supervise something ongoing, and one den has no one. So, the plan for the leaderless den is basically tag-teaming.

Our dens meet at the same time for this reason. If there isn't coverage, first it falls on the Cubmaster, then we will combine dens if we have to. Once the scouts earn the requirements, and still no parents have stepped up to lead any electives, then the den stops meeting on their own. Sometimes those kids are lucky enough to have a sibling in another den meeting so they can join the activity. Or we fuse them into another den's activity that week.

Our Pack is pretty uneven like that too. Some of our dens have several capable leaders and are strong, and some dens struggle to stay together.

[Armymutt]

We meet on the same night for YPT and convenience reasons already.  How do you assign someone to be a DL?  There is money, training, and an application involved.  

[DannyG]

1 hour ago, Armymutt said:

We meet on the same night for YPT and convenience reasons already.  How do you assign someone to be a DL?  There is money, training, and an application involved.  

Volun-tell an adult they should be den leader. Give them the application, tell them how to complete YPT. Our Pack pays for adult leaders registration in our dues. We figured at least our volunteers don't have to pay for the job. (Well, we used to do this with our recharter. Let's see how this new online registration works.)

So what if they don't complete the registration process, if they are taking steps leading the den? They can always catch up. Baby steps...

[scoutldr]

You communicate with all the parents that Cub Scouting is run by parent volunteers.  Tell them that, without adequate volunteer leadership, the Pack will not recharter and meetings will cease.  Then do it.  It is not fair to put the entire burden on a few volunteers filling multiple positions.  

[Armymutt]

I don't know that voluntelling people will work.  I've tried telling them that the den will cease to exist if no one steps up to run it.  It's a Tiger den - both kids have to have their parents present anyway.  Not sure why it's such a problem for them.  I guess we can just do independent study and each parent can input the advancement as it is completed.  Not ideal, but if it accomplishes the mission, ok.  At this point, I'm tired of pulling the pack along with me.  My son is friends with his den, so we'll stay until he's finished with AOL.  My daughter's den is hit and miss.  I'm at the point where I will have no issues with dropping this pack and moving to one that is closer.  We came here because we go to church at the CO.  The CO isn't very supportive anyway.  Lots of un-needed frustration for me.  We definitely won't be joining the troop here.  

[fred8033]

Lion and Tiger dens of less than eight are problematic as the den usually doesn't survive to Webelos / AOL.  Lose one or two a year.  By Webelos, you are at two or three scouts.  The den folds.  

IMHO, get your daughter into a healthy den / pack.  At some point, it's about your own kid's experience.  The years go very, very quick.  Really.  It's not worth fighting a bad situation.  Sometimes it's better to let a den or pack die fast; than to drag it out.  

 

[NDW5332]

Any chance you can get a parent in one of the other dens to be DL, at least on paper?  In our Pack, we had a Bear Den with 6 scouts and a set Den Leader,  but then he got a new job opportunity, but in taking the job, he quit as DL on the spot.  His son stayed around, but due to the demands of the job (expanded hours, conflicting days & times, , he had to drop immediately. None of the other parents in the den would step up.  I was CC and rechartering was coming up.  I asked each parent individually, and had them lay out their concerns and reasoning. Some parents thought they already did "enough", some parents didn't want to deal with specific kids in the den (one mom had a problem with another mom; one dad had a problem with a different mom).  So, I made it an agenda item at the next committee meeting, which was open to the Pack.  One Wolf dad that showed up, who was also the previous CC and who's oldest son crossed over three years prior, said he'd take over the Bear den.   Problem solved, but I got lucky!

[Armymutt]

On 9/8/2023 at 10:29 AM, fred8033 said:

Lion and Tiger dens of less than eight are problematic as the den usually doesn't survive to Webelos / AOL.  Lose one or two a year.  By Webelos, you are at two or three scouts.  The den folds.  

IMHO, get your daughter into a healthy den / pack.  At some point, it's about your own kid's experience.  The years go very, very quick.  Really.  It's not worth fighting a bad situation.  Sometimes it's better to let a den or pack die fast; than to drag it out.  

 

We've never had a den bigger than 7.  My son's den had 2 Scouts as a Tiger and a Lion straphanger.  The next year, we added one core and three sometimers.  Got up to 7 as Bears for about 3 months.  That's our biggest den.  My kids will always have a den leader.  The pack will survive until at least my son moves to a troop.  We'll reassess then.  

At our leader meeting - open to everyone - on Saturday, we decided that I would be the Wolf DL.  Meetings will be on Saturdays at my house.  My wife is a registered Scouter, so we meet YP requirements.  We have two parents who have attended the meeting in the past, but neither ever responded to calls for leadership.  I flat out asked them if they would do it.  Explained that it's actually pretty simple with the Den Leader Experience.  It lays out everything - you just have to read ahead a bit and gather materials or task a parent to bring something.  A quick side vote with the committee and we agreed to pay their fees - normally we ask that the first year be paid by the volunteer, but that was under the pro-rated system.  They agreed, so hopefully we'll have applications tomorrow night.