Legal settlements and abuse

[AwakeEnergyScouter]

Nope.

[johnsch322]

19 minutes ago, AwakeEnergyScouter said:

Nope.

Fingerprinting and running them thru databases would seem to be a must do. Can you imagine the next lawsuit (outside of the bankruptcy) when a lawyer says to a jury that the BSA says that they are doing everything possible to keep children safe yet they don’t do fingerprinting. 

[AwakeEnergyScouter]

You've got a point, although I have to admit that I was thinking "well, at least they're not trying to fingerprint me".

My worry isn't so much what the BSA is going to do with it, it's more about whether criminals could steal the information from the BSA. And to be honest, I don't really know how well-founded it is. 

In the case of giving my SSN that concern is still there, but it's also obvious to me that SSN is required for any even theoretically effective background check. So, it's a bit take it or leave it.

Perhaps the important question to ask is what combination of information and checks of scout-facing volunteers is needed to be very effective. Presumably what background checks turn up can be made more effective by cross-checking with other things, like ID and fingerprints, but I'm not sure where you've already gotten excellent detection of pedos (and anyone else who might hurt children in some other way) and more checking doesn't really improve things any more. Somebody out there knows, though.

[johnsch322]

50 minutes ago, AwakeEnergyScouter said:

You've got a point, although I have to admit that I was thinking "well, at least they're not trying to fingerprint me".

My worry isn't so much what the BSA is going to do with it, it's more about whether criminals could steal the information from the BSA. And to be honest, I don't really know how well-founded it is. 

In the case of giving my SSN that concern is still there, but it's also obvious to me that SSN is required for any even theoretically effective background check. So, it's a bit take it or leave it.

Perhaps the important question to ask is what combination of information and checks of scout-facing volunteers is needed to be very effective. Presumably what background checks turn up can be made more effective by cross-checking with other things, like ID and fingerprints, but I'm not sure where you've already gotten excellent detection of pedos (and anyone else who might hurt children in some other way) and more checking doesn't really improve things any more. Somebody out there knows, though.

You can fake ID and Social Security number but I have not heard of anyone faking fingerprints. If you are going to do a thorough background check I would think that fingerprinting and running them thru the FBI database would be mandatory. 

[ThenNow]

48 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:

You can fake ID and Social Security number but I have not heard of anyone faking fingerprints. If you are going to do a thorough background check I would think that fingerprinting and running them thru the FBI database would be mandatory. 

Better to catch the 3%, but will the fingerprints catch what the background check won’t/didn’t? I hate this statistic.

“The fingerprint scans will only show if there is a criminal history record. For an offender to have a criminal record they must first be convicted of a crime. Only 3% of all predators are ever convicted. Background checks will not catch roughly 97% of predators. Why? Because there are many steps that must happen for a conviction to occur. Each step only reduces the chances the predator will be charged with a crime.”
 

http://www.o.com/blog/2019/8/22/quit-relying-on-background-checks-and-sex-offender-registries-to-protect-children#:~:text=Background checks will not catch,be charged with a crime.

Edited September 16, 2023 by ThenNow

[yknot]

6 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

Better to catch the 3%, but will the fingerprints catch what the background check won’t/didn’t? I hate this statistic.

“The fingerprint scans will only show if there is a criminal history record. For an offender to have a criminal record they must first be convicted of a crime. Only 3% of all predators are ever convicted. Background checks will not catch roughly 97% of predators. Why? Because there are many steps that must happen for a conviction to occur. Each step only reduces the chances the predator will be charged with a crime.”
 

http://www.o.com/blog/2019/8/22/quit-relying-on-background-checks-and-sex-offender-registries-to-protect-children#:~:text=Background checks will not catch,be charged with a crime.

Things don't always show up on background checks. Parental searches have turned up convictions, charges, and headlines that have resulted in people being removed from kid facing roles despite having passed recent checks. I don't know what to make of that except maybe one of the youth protection guidelines should be for parents to also do searches. People who repeatedly slide out of accusations reported in headlines without charges or convictions should be a red flag but not sure if they are picked up on these checks. 

[johnsch322]

3 hours ago, yknot said:

Things don't always show up on background checks. Parental searches have turned up convictions, charges, and headlines that have resulted in people being removed from kid facing roles despite having passed recent checks. I don't know what to make of that except maybe one of the youth protection guidelines should be for parents to also do searches. People who repeatedly slide out of accusations reported in headlines without charges or convictions should be a red flag but not sure if they are picked up on these checks. 

you are correct not everything may show and for that reason every possible avenue of investigation should be used.

[Eagle94-A1]

On 9/15/2023 at 6:14 PM, yknot said:

Presenting a driver's license in order to gain access to areas that kids are in, for example a school, has been SOP in a lot of places for a long time.

As you stated, not everywhere. I visit high schools on a regular basis. I get buzzed into the office, register via computer which takes my photo and issues me a badge that is a sticker. No ID or fingerprints required.

 

[johnsch322]

30 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

As you stated, not everywhere. I visit high schools on a regular basis. I get buzzed into the office, register via computer which takes my photo and issues me a badge that is a sticker. No ID or fingerprints required.

 

I had to present my drivers license to get access into my daughters high school. 

[mrjohns2]

1 hour ago, johnsch322 said:

I had to present my drivers license to get access into my daughters high school. 

Middle School and High School here require it. 

[AwakeEnergyScouter]

Every elementary school we toured required it.

[yknot]

It's seems like its been pretty standard in most places for a long time.

Edit: In fact I would say in general a lot of security measures have been very robust in schools and other youth settings, such as security cameras, the presence of LEOs, adults and staff also having to wear photo ID badges, anonymous threat reporting systems, etc.  

Edited September 18, 2023 by yknot

[Eagle94-A1]

Again, I am just pointing out that nationally, there are different procedures. What is the norm in one area, is not the norm in another.

Yes there are cameras, LEOs, metal detectors, buzz ins, etc. But presenting photo ID is not one of them.

[AwakeEnergyScouter]

While that's almost certainly true, the fact that it is normative in many areas leads credence to the idea that not requiring ID to be a leader is lagging common practice in schools for much lesser contact with children.

In those areas in which ID is not required, it might seem like more than elsewhere, yes. But if we take the cautious view, that ID is already SOP for adults around kids in many areas suggests that BSA should require it too.

[MikeS72]

Driver's License or state issued ID is required in order to come on any campus in my area, and has been for years.  I cannot remember the name of the software and database, but it scanned the ID and compared it to a database of SA offenders and persons with violent felony convictions.  If there was a match it displayed the persons photo in the database to compare against the person who presented the ID.

I had numerous occasions where I had to go to various schools, usually to assist in training new staff, and even with my employee ID badge around my neck I still had to present my license to be scanned.