Scouts Honor - Netflix

[Eagle94-A1]

32 minutes ago, AwakeEnergyScouter said:

What makes you say that?

I have never heard anyone say or do anything to suggest that this would be true. 

One of the attorneys is on the record, specifically an NPR interview, stating he wants the BSA dissolved. One of the bankruptcy threads has a link to the 30 minute interview.

[AwakeEnergyScouter]

I'll look for that - thanks, @Eagle94-A1!

[InquisitiveScouter]

1 hour ago, skeptic said:

Perspective is in the eye of the observer, but also their mind.  Blinders often appear due to previous personal bias.  https://lawliberty.org/an-elegy-for-the-boy-scouts/

An excellent article.

[AwakeEnergyScouter]

I think you guys are way too pessimistic about whether BSA can turn it's membership trends, hostile lawyer notwithstanding. (Haven't found the link, but assuming worst case.)

It's easy for me to say since many of these societal changes that the article (and many other posts here talk about) have already gone to completion in Sweden, and scouting is doing just fine and we have more social capital in society than the US. (See https://solability.com/the-global-sustainable-competitiveness-index/the-index/social-capital) Other phenomena the article and posts here talk about were never present in Swedish scouting and Swedish scouting is still just fine. It's just not so that changes in US and only US culture is dooming all scouting. It's not all hopeless.

I'm hoping that some of you who are feeling down about the BSA's future could raise some good mental energy by really noticing this. Scouting has endured for so long in so many places exactly because it's not so susceptible to fads and trends and even genuine societal change. Every society changes - and yet scouting persists in 200 (WOSM)/ 152 (WAGGGS) countries and territories. (So 199/151 that aren't the US.) Scouts advise and address the UN. We deliver humanitarian aid in Ukraine and floods in Libya. Both US scouting organizations do have membership problems, but US scouting isn't fatefully doomed.

Edited October 16, 2023 by AwakeEnergyScouter

[johnsch322]

5 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

One of the attorneys is on the record,

One attorney Tim Kosnoff. But one attorney is not a movement...it is just one opinion.

[skeptic]

1 hour ago, johnsch322 said:

One attorney Tim Kosnoff. But one attorney is not a movement...it is just one opinion.

He has made it very clear and blasted this opinion every chance he has gotten.  And likely others have agreed, but we simply do not see them.  Not a good example, as he has been censured if I recollect.  Still, it is just an opinion.  

 

[SSScout]

An organization is only as good as it's human leadership (General Miley, thank you for calling your office).

The ideals not withstanding, the past BSA leadership  were thinking too wishfully. The present situation is the result.  When folks did not believe what they were told, didn't make sure the miscreants were properly held to account,   censured, charged, punished and REMOVED from all of Scouting,  the present situation had to occur. 

If the lessons were learned,  publically acknowledged, the victims made whole as well as can be done this much later,  then we must move forward with the SAME ideals and example to our youth that made Scouting's reputation what it is.   

Knots need to be tied. Trails need to be hiked. Boots need to get muddy and Good Deeds need to be done daily. 

What else is on the agenda? 

 

[AwakeEnergyScouter]

I couldn't find a quote from him saying this, but given what I did find I don't think I can be bothered to look more - it's plausible enough.

I did also find an NPR segment with a survivor (already forgot his name) who also wanted the BSA disbanded, but in this case to make room for a new NSO.

So that just doubled the number of people I can verify think this, but that's still quite far from a movement or a general societal sentiment.

Edited October 17, 2023 by AwakeEnergyScouter
Typo

[AwakeEnergyScouter]

2 hours ago, SSScout said:

Knots need to be tied. Trails need to be hiked. Boots need to get muddy and Good Deeds need to be done daily. 

What else is on the agenda?

Tied some knots, hiked some trails, and muddied some boots this weekend. Cubmaster helped an old lady up a steep section of the trail. (She was on her way to the summit to see the eclipse, not necessarily there for the climb itself.) We had a great campout with both fun and advancement and awards.

What else? Raise tents, cook food, have good-spirited campfire. Especially have campfires. 🏕️

[InquisitiveScouter]

16 hours ago, AwakeEnergyScouter said:

I think you guys are way too pessimistic about whether BSA can turn it's membership trends, hostile lawyer notwithstanding. (Haven't found the link, but assuming worst case.)

It's easy for me to say since many of these societal changes that the article (and many other posts here talk about) have already gone to completion in Sweden, and scouting is doing just fine and we have more social capital in society than the US. (See https://solability.com/the-global-sustainable-competitiveness-index/the-index/social-capital) Other phenomena the article and posts here talk about were never present in Swedish scouting and Swedish scouting is still just fine. It's just not so that changes in US and only US culture is dooming all scouting. It's not all hopeless.

I'm hoping that some of you who are feeling down about the BSA's future could raise some good mental energy by really noticing this. Scouting has endured for so long in so many places exactly because it's not so susceptible to fads and trends and even genuine societal change. Every society changes - and yet scouting persists in 200 (WOSM)/ 152 (WAGGGS) countries and territories. (So 199/151 that aren't the US.) Scouts advise and address the UN. We deliver humanitarian aid in Ukraine and floods in Libya. Both US scouting organizations do have membership problems, but US scouting isn't fatefully doomed.

Not pessimistic about Scouting... just ambivalent about BSA's survival.  BSA does not equal Scouting.  It is but one organization that engages in what it calls Scouting.

If it goes the way of the Dodo, there will still be other Scouting organizations around... 

There are several other Scouting organizations in the USA, and you can drill down to find them here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_non-aligned_Scouting_organizations

 

[fred8033]

12 hours ago, AwakeEnergyScouter said:

... who also wanted the BSA disbanded, but in this case to make room for a new NSO. ...

This is one of those cases where I roll my eyes.  The key is should youth be challenged by going outside camping to have experiences beyond their comfort zone.  Then whether it's BSA or a NSO, it's moot.  IMHO, a NSO would be a huge waste of pre-existing resources and goodwill to rebrand to satisfy a small population of disgruntled people.  

BSA cries out for real, massive re-engineering, but destroying and restarting is just not a real option.

[AwakeEnergyScouter]

Should the BSA actually fail - to be clear, I don't think it will - I think either GSUSA will become the WOSM NSO also, or a new WOSM NSO will be founded by scouters who used to serve BSA. Even in that extreme case, scouting for men will continue in the US, one way or the other.

But disbanding specifically to reform would only make sense if all is lost, and I think it's clear that there's quite a bit left. I understand why a survivor would feel that way, though. Wanting to destroy what/who destroyed you is a thought that is almost bound to arise when you've been very seriously hurt. I think that's what it is, just part of the pain if the painful situation.

[AwakeEnergyScouter]

7 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Not pessimistic about Scouting... just ambivalent about BSA's survival.  BSA does not equal Scouting.  It is but one organization that engages in what it calls Scouting.

If it goes the way of the Dodo, there will still be other Scouting organizations around... 

There are several other Scouting organizations in the USA, and you can drill down to find them here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_non-aligned_Scouting_organizations

Sorry, I should perhaps been clearer - that BSA != Scouting was one of my points. I agree completely - the BSA could fold and scouting for men in the US wouldn't die, it would be reborn in some way or other. The BSA can struggle without scouting going the way of the dodo, they aren't the same thing. You can't conclude that society has changed such that scouting will die just because one specific scouting organization is struggling.

Although, I wouldn't call the Pioneers or the Hitlerjugend scouting organizations, so I disagree with Wikipedia on what scouting is. Even their less extreme examples of scouting and scout-like organizations I wouldn't really consider scouting, but that's a more minor point. 

Really, I wanted to point out that there's a point in doing the basic work of delivering the program to interested children, there's a point in discussing and proposing specific operational, strategic, and tactical changes for the BSA, and there's a point to trading tips and wins with each other. The sun will rise tomorrow, and presumably we should be prepared.

Edited October 17, 2023 by AwakeEnergyScouter

[skeptic]

32 minutes ago, AwakeEnergyScouter said:

Sorry, I should perhaps been clearer - that BSA != Scouting was one of my points. I agree completely - the BSA could fold and scouting for men in the US wouldn't die, it would be reborn in some way or other. The BSA can struggle without scouting going the way of the dodo, they aren't the same thing. You can't conclude that society has changed such that scouting will die just because one specific scouting organization is struggling.

Although, I wouldn't call the Pioneers or the Hitlerjugend scouting organizations, so I disagree with Wikipedia on what scouting is. Even their less extreme examples of scouting and scout-like organizations I wouldn't really consider scouting, but that's a more minor point. 

Really, I wanted to point out that there's a point in doing the basic work of delivering the program to interested children, there's a point in discussing and proposing specific operational, strategic, and tactical changes for the BSA, and there's a point to trading tips and wins with each other. The sun will rise tomorrow, and presumably we should be prepared.

I like that phrase "Be Prepared".  Seems I have seen it before.😉

[AwakeEnergyScouter]

1 hour ago, skeptic said:

I like that phrase "Be Prepared".  Seems I have seen it before.😉

Perhaps just in passing 😉

Part of the Swedish scout law reads "A scout meets difficulties with cheerfulness."

We have high social capital in large part because we really believe in that sort of thing (or, at least, a stiff upper lip) and in that problems always have solutions. Perhaps this is Nordic of me, but I don't see why the BSA's problems would be any different.