The future of the BSA

[InquisitiveScouter]

19 minutes ago, Tron said:

That website is localized and I believe a Massachusetts based program. What I have heard rumblings about is a BSA national wide program called Catalyst BSA which is targeted at "scouts" in their 20s and 30s. Do other countries have adult scouting programs that BSA might have been looking at to extend the program longer/continue to grow membership revenue?

Rovers in many countries.

[Armymutt]

On 10/2/2023 at 2:30 PM, InquisitiveScouter said:

@Armymutt,  I understand your logic.  Those two leaders, in spirit, are to be there to supervise their Scouts, and not to be dedicated to some other purpose.

That said, many do not interpret the rule this way.  It is considered "acceptable" for leaders to do other activities while remaining "on the property" where their unit is conducting an event, and not be "ever-present" with their Scouts. (granted, Cub Scouts need a little more supervision than Scouts...)

As in your case, with Cub Scouts, you may not want to flex the rule in that way.  That is totally your prerogative, and I support you 100%. 

 

In the case of Cub Scouts, an adult will always be present with them.  However, that adult is unlikely to be YP trained, and in our case, Safe Environment trained.  If the BSA and the Catholic church both feel that these are critical classes for adults to be around youth, then it seems to me that leaving kids with untrained adults who may not be their parents is outside of the intentions of the policy.  I would have a tough time explaining to a parent or council how a child under my responsibility became a victim because "I was present on the property".  Older Scouts can defend themselves, or at least be trained to do so.  Cubbies tend to be far less aware of these things and less likely to say something.  

[DannyG]

On 8/14/2023 at 8:01 AM, Jameson76 said:

• Come to camp with your unit and we need you to also help run the camp you also paid to attend

On 9/27/2023 at 1:05 PM, Armymutt said:

When our Pack goes camping, we have 2, maybe 3, registered leaders.  So if one of us goes and runs a station for an hour, the rest of the Pack has to sit at the station in order to comply.  We can't send parents of anyone who is below a Wolf.  Most of our parents lack initiative, otherwise, they'd be wearing a uniform.  Sending them to run a station would result in chaos.

This is exactly how our district runs a Cubs event: It is required to register a minimum one adult volunteer per 5 cub scouts (+Lions and Tigers are required to attend with their adult partner). Pack/Den Leader is one of the volunteer positions. So if you register 5 or less youth, they will merge you with another small unit with 5 or less plus their adult volunteer, so you will be in a combined unit of roughly 10 scouts with 2 adult leaders. If your unit registers up to 10 youth, you must bring a minimum of two adult volunteers: so you have your one leader + one assistant. After you register more than 10 scouts, then they can start to skim off some of the adults to run stations. There is also a requirement to send volunteers the day before camp to help set up. And yes, we have sent inexperienced adults out to help run stations. They do just fine. Everybody realizes the camp won't run without volunteer help. Luckily we have enough adults that come back year after year, and a pool of older BSA scouts that will also volunteer. It is a well run camp that everyone looks forward to. People make time to serve it.

Edited October 4, 2023 by DannyG

[MikeS72]

2 hours ago, Armymutt said:

it seems to me that leaving kids with untrained adults who may not be their parents is outside of the intentions of the policy. 

Part of the new (9/1/23) Cub requirements for supervision deals with just such a situation as part of the GTSS Youth Protection / Scouting's Barriers to Abuse section:  In addition, the parent or legal guardian must be accompanied by a registered leader at any time they are with youth members other than their own child/ward.

 

[Ojoman]

1 hour ago, MikeS72 said:

Part of the new (9/1/23) Cub requirements for supervision deals with just such a situation as part of the GTSS Youth Protection / Scouting's Barriers to Abuse section:  In addition, the parent or legal guardian must be accompanied by a registered leader at any time they are with youth members other than their own child/ward.

 

Common sense and the old 2 deep leader rule should have been enough but the problem with common sense is that it isn't very common. Since the lawsuit, which was handled very poorly, and the bankruptcy that may still put the BSA out of business the pendulum has swung so far from center it may never return. Now, everyone has to register, everyone has to be trained and costs are going through the roof. This isn't your fathers BSA. 

 

[FireStone]

Throwing a random thought out there:

I see a lot of comments about costs, registration fees, uniform costs, etc. And when I go on social media I see a lot of people commenting on photos of scouts with incomplete or improper uniforms. Scouts wearing jeans, non-standard insignia, missing badges, etc.

Many of these comments come from adults, and one recent comment I saw came from a council executive.

I feel like we've gotta let it go with the uniform policing. At the local unit level, if a troop wants to maintain some kind of uniform standard, fine. But at an organizational level, this can only be doing harm.

Especially now, if costs are this much of an issue, shaming scouts and families into purchasing every single piece of the uniform is only going to make families question whether they want to be a part of this.

I'm not that interested in what scouts are wearing when they show up. Obviously I'd prefer they wear at least a uniform shirt, but the rest is not a priority for me. Uniform shirt, t-shirt, jeans, shorts, neckerchief, no neckerchief, doesn't matter, I'd just rather they show up.

If they're willing to show up, I'm not going to criticize that they're wearing jeans. I'm still shocked that a council exec took to social media to comment on a scout's jeans in a photo. It's not the only thing that will drive kids and families away from this, but it for sure could be one of the things that might.

[Ojoman]

40 minutes ago, FireStone said:

I feel like we've gotta let it go with the uniform policing. At the local unit level, if a troop wants to maintain some kind of uniform standard, fine. But at an organizational level, this can only be doing harm.

 

I agree. When my kids were in costs were a lot less but even so the pack made their own neckerchiefs with a silk screen design. These days with new uniform parts for each grade/rank in cubs it is recidulous! Also, the shear number of pins and badges for cubs is out of control. This all adds to the costs of the program. Some units have a Tshirt as a class B uniform which is GREAT. It promotes the pack and their location/chartered partner. We need more of that. A sharp tshirt is something the kids may wear to school or other activities and can be a recruiting tool. Anything that keeps kids and families away from the program is a negative. The benefits of membership and participation are too important. The units should set their own standards and as long as it isn't sloppy I'm in favor. 

[Eagledad]

16 hours ago, Ojoman said:

I agree. When my kids were in costs were a lot less but even so the pack made their own neckerchiefs with a silk screen design. These days with new uniform parts for each grade/rank in cubs it is recidulous! Also, the shear number of pins and badges for cubs is out of control. This all adds to the costs of the program. Some units have a Tshirt as a class B uniform which is GREAT. It promotes the pack and their location/chartered partner. We need more of that. A sharp tshirt is something the kids may wear to school or other activities and can be a recruiting tool. Anything that keeps kids and families away from the program is a negative. The benefits of membership and participation are too important. The units should set their own standards and as long as it isn't sloppy I'm in favor. 

I disagree. Almost anyone in the world can identify a Boy Scout uniform. It represents character and integrity. Even after the Girl Scouts did away from their traditional uniform, it was still the uniform used in movies because it identifies with the organization worldwide. I understand that the GSUSA is moving back toward that uniform.

Barry

[AwakeEnergyScouter]

3 hours ago, Eagledad said:

Almost anyone in the world can identify a Boy Scout uniform. It represents character and integrity.

Well, not just boys, but more importantly - it's not the scout socks, belt, and pants that are so distinctive. It's the necker, the woggle, and the shirt with badges that's so recognizable.

You can drop a good number of official BSA uniform items before anyone not in the BSA even notices, and popcorn selling has also taught me that not even former (and sometimes even current 🤦🏼‍♀️) scouts can always tell a BSA uniform from a GSUSA uniform. 

When I was a scout, our uniform consisted entirely of the shirt and the necker with woggle. No alternates, not pants or socks or hats or multiple "classes" or uniforms. (Still have no idea what that actually means.) BSA uniform requirements are off the chain - inspection sheets? Really? For 5, 6, 7, 8-year-olds?

[InquisitiveScouter]

1 minute ago, AwakeEnergyScouter said:

BSA uniform requirements are off the chain - inspection sheets? Really? For 5, 6, 7, 8-year-olds?

C'mon @AwakeEnergyScouter!  How else are we going to generate the revenue to pay those quarter to half million dollar salaries?

https://apps.irs.gov/pub/epostcard/cor/221576300_202012_990_2022102520553328.pdf

See page 18 & 19 of BSA National's last filed IRS Form 990 (none since 2020 due to Chapter 11 Bankruptcy??)

 

[AwakeEnergyScouter]

Can't we sell toothpaste or something?

[InquisitiveScouter]

Just now, AwakeEnergyScouter said:

Can't we sell toothpaste or something?

Sell more popcorn!

(or just give us your money directly... that'd be better!)

Did you know there is a knot you can wear on your uniform for giving $1000 over and above your Friends of Scouting donation?

https://www.scoutshop.org/james-e-west-knot-606783.html

https://www.bsafoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/2016-James-E.-West-Application.pdf

[AwakeEnergyScouter]

4 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Did you know there is a knot you can wear on your uniform for giving $1000 over and above your Friends of Scouting donation?

I did not.

I think someone got confused about the point of scouting.

[InquisitiveScouter]

1 hour ago, AwakeEnergyScouter said:

I did not.

I think someone got confused about the point of scouting.

Someone took a good idea, and figured out how to monetize it, then used our own tax laws to create an organization to feed from the trough of money they could get from people.

Capitalism at its best worst!

Edited October 5, 2023 by InquisitiveScouter
Corrected my thought.

[Eagledad]

4 hours ago, AwakeEnergyScouter said:

Well, not just boys, but more importantly - it's not the scout socks, belt, and pants that are so distinctive. It's the necker, the woggle, and the shirt with badges that's so recognizable.

You can drop a good number of official BSA uniform items before anyone not in the BSA even notices, and popcorn selling has also taught me that not even former (and sometimes even current 🤦🏼‍♀️) scouts can always tell a BSA uniform from a GSUSA uniform. 

When I was a scout, our uniform consisted entirely of the shirt and the necker with woggle. No alternates, not pants or socks or hats or multiple "classes" or uniforms. (Still have no idea what that actually means.) BSA uniform requirements are off the chain - inspection sheets? Really? For 5, 6, 7, 8-year-olds?

I respect what you are saying, but we will have to agree to disagree.

Barry