The future of the BSA

[MattR]

@Eagle94-A1, while a lot of us have bad stories, your council is the worst. Just to balance things out a bit, don't forget all the threads we see here about bad scout leaders. I once asked why we didn't have a commisioner and the answer was that we had one of the best troops and they trusted us and they had much bigger issues with out of control drama, drinking, etc in other units. @5thGenTexan 's troop is probably not too far from typical.

Anyway, these are the things that we have to work around. None of the issues with a bad council are nearly as bad to a unit's program as not having parents help out or kids show up. I can ignore the council, I can't ignore that parents are stretched thin and have a lot of reasons that they can't camp with us. If I had enough adult help then I wouldn't need council for anything other than what the registrar does, and that's not much.

So, the real question is how to find and teach more adults to help out and also make their help fun, right for them and not overwhelming. Overwhelming comes from not having enough help to spread the load so it's really about getting enough adults to be part of the program, in whatever way they can. Someone could take all the photos we have once a year and make a slide show for a COH. It doesn't have to be a big deal. Anyone that likes the outdoors can learn how to stay warm in cold weather, and I bet they'd have fun with us on campouts. Do this with enough parents and suddenly we'll be back to having most of the troop show up at campouts. Then we can get back to patrol method.

One thing I've wondered about is combining units the way UK scouts does into groups. Two packs and a troop could share a lot of resources and continuity from pack to troop. This could all be done without any help from the council.

[SSScout]

1 hour ago, MattR said:

One thing I've wondered about is combining units the way UK scouts does into groups. Two packs and a troop could share a lot of resources and continuity from pack to troop. This could all be done without any help from the council.

"The work is done by whoever shows up.  Therefore,  SHOW UP" 

There is no reason at all why local Scout units can't c-operate and do stuff together. The safety regs need attention, but beyond that, go and make the phone call and knock on the doors.  

I am often reminded of the PLC I sat in on some years ago.  They were newly elected, the SPL and the three PLs, and the SM  (not me, I was in the back, a UC). The SM was suggesting activities, and finally, the SPL woke up and said: "you mean, I can make that decision??"  SM said "DUUUH". and they had a good year ...   Samething.  Make the decisiion, go ahead....

[MattR]

4 hours ago, SSScout said:

Make the decision, go ahead....

Sure, but something about being prepared keeps poking the back of my gray matter. I have noticed that nay sayers jump out of the woodwork whenever a new idea is proposed. Understanding how, for example, the UK does this could help.

[RememberSchiff]

28 minutes ago, MattR said:

Sure, but something about being prepared keeps poking the back of my gray matter. I have noticed that nay sayers jump out of the woodwork whenever a new idea is proposed. Understanding how, for example, the UK does this could help.

My gray matter seems to recall, they delivered a shrubbery to the sayers of Nay?

[AwakeEnergyScouter]

The Knights who say Ni!

[InquisitiveScouter]

We are no longer the Knights who say "Ni!"  We are now the Knights who say, "Ecki, ecki ecki, ecki, pakang, zum-boing!!"

C'mon people, we put this change out years ago!

See time mark 0:18

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZvsGdJP3ng&ab_channel=KennyFerry

Now, go find a herring!

[JBWest]

On 8/13/2023 at 3:23 PM, Ojoman said:

I have to question the ability of BSA to recover. 

 

While I share your concerns, I suggest you are missing the point of the Scouting movement.  We used to have four TV channels, and Scouting was the only game in town for outdoor leadership.  Now there is an LL Bean or an  REI on every corner or in every smart phone, and the challenge is getting kids outside at all.  They do not mature until they are older, and by then they have aged out of Scouting, having forsaken a childhood outdoors in favor of TikTok and Discord.

Be Prepared to embrace outdoor leadership whatever its form.  You may encounter a kid just out of college, strung out on ADHD meds and unable to focus due to eye strain.  Somewhere he or she may have stopped to smell the flowers, or simply walked on grass barefoot, or endured years of psychotherapy telling him or her to just breathe and focus on the here and now without electronic distractions.  Take him or her for a walk or even a camping trip.  Ask if he or she wants to register as an ASM and offer to pay the fee.  You might be surprised when he or she embraces the program, vowing to teach kids the benefits of turning off the phone and listening to nature.

BSA will be here forever, but there is competition in the form of college level outdoor skills programs, youth sports, college prep extracurriculars, and church youth groups.  Focus on the moms with your marketing.  They are the ones who have to demand their sons and daughters put down the video game controllers and clean their room.  They can lead us back to prominence.  Stranger things have happened!

[AwakeEnergyScouter]

I don't really know what's going on in Swedish scouting organization- and strategy-wise, but their recruiting video inspires me to get outdoors and seek adventure, too. It's at the top of their "become a scout" page at https://www-scouterna-se.translate.goog/bli-scout/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_hist=true that also hits hard on that scouting is exciting outdoor adventure.

Their homepage also leans hard into outdoor adventure: https://www-scouterna-se.translate.goog/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_hist=true

And there are queues to join in some places. The pitch to become a leader is partly to get your own kid in faster 😄

Bear Gryllis as Chief Scout in the UK also promises adventure.

Last Child in the Woods is trendy. https://www.amazon.com/Last-Child-Woods-Children-Nature-Deficit/dp/156512605X

IMO it's quite clear that outdoor adventure is what people come to scouts for, so that's what we should deliver. In spades. Ultralight backpacking spades.

 

[Ojoman]

2 hours ago, JBWest said:

While I share your concerns, I suggest you are missing the point of the Scouting movement.  We used to have four TV channels, and Scouting was the only game in town for outdoor leadership.  Now there is an LL Bean or an  REI on every corner or in every smart phone, and the challenge is getting kids outside at all. 

My kids were/are the nintendo/atari generation and that was just as exciting to them as the games and internet is to todays kids. My grandson doesn't have to invite his friends over, they play on the internet. That said, he is often bored as the games are no longer so novel even though the graphics are far superior to what my kids had. Our neighborhood/school district offered all the present distractions of multiple sports programs and the local cub pack had folded (twice in 2 years). My kids were coming of cub age and I contacted the Scout office and we held a sign up at the school in January. We rechartered with 6 families and every family took a position. We got everyone trained and had a planning meeting and drafted a 12 month program complete with den meetings over the summer and pack meetings and events that would qualify us for the Summertime award. The result, 2 years later we had over 50 families in the pack and towards the 3rd year we split off a 30 member pack at another church because we were getting too big. The keys are to engage the parents along with the kids while meeting the needs and expectations of parents and kids. An active, well rounded 12 month program is key to retention. As long as kids are working towards and earning badges and getting recognition they stay. As long as they look forward to program growth as they move up (more challenge, more fun, more excitement) they stay. 

One of todays PROBLEMS is that the program is now 6 years instead of 4. That is a long time to retain a kids interest. I would suggest building the program in 3 stages, lion/tiger, wolf/bear and Webelos/Aol. A great program retains and attracts. 

And yes, I understand the challenge with 30% single parents and work pressures but we had that back then and overcame it. GOOD LUCK!

[yknot]

8 minutes ago, AwakeEnergyScouter said:

 

IMO it's quite clear that outdoor adventure is what people come to scouts for, so that's what we should deliver. In spades. Ultralight backpacking spades.

 

BSA doesn't though, unless you're lucky enough to be in the right unit in the right council. It couldn't keep my sons interested long term, and they are intrepid outdoors kids. My oldest just went to Svalbard by himself on a trip he organized solo over spring break. 

[InquisitiveScouter]

26 minutes ago, AwakeEnergyScouter said:

I don't really know what's going on in Swedish scouting organization- and strategy-wise, but their recruiting video inspires me to get outdoors and seek adventure, too. It's at the top of their "become a scout" page at https://www-scouterna-se.translate.goog/bli-scout/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_hist=true that also hits hard on that scouting is exciting outdoor adventure.

Their homepage also leans hard into outdoor adventure: https://www-scouterna-se.translate.goog/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_hist=true

And there are queues to join in some places. The pitch to become a leader is partly to get your own kid in faster 😄

Bear Gryllis as Chief Scout in the UK also promises adventure.

Last Child in the Woods is trendy. https://www.amazon.com/Last-Child-Woods-Children-Nature-Deficit/dp/156512605X

IMO it's quite clear that outdoor adventure is what people come to scouts for, so that's what we should deliver. In spades. Ultralight backpacking spades.

 

I love the dirt-smudged hands and faces in that video, @AwakeEnergyScouter!!!

I tell people, IF you want real adventure and Scouting, you need to step outside your (flush-toilet and hot shower) comfort zone 😜 , and accept some risk to get a greater reward.

A saying I love, and use in an SM minute from time to time is, "A ship in harbor is safe, but that’s not what ships are built for."

[AwakeEnergyScouter]

5 minutes ago, Ojoman said:

My grandson doesn't have to invite his friends over, they play on the internet. That said, he is often bored as the games are no longer so novel even though the graphics are far superior to what my kids had.

My first console was the classic Nintendo 8-bit, and my scout does what your grandson does. They have a Minecraft friend group going.

But my scout loves the adventure all the same. They love the opportunities to lead and be in charge. (I run the hiking club, and because I'm a big believer in scout-led I put two scouts in charge every time.) You can't actually watch TV and play games until the heat death of the universe. I agree - there's still demand for what scouting offers. But we need to actually arrange the adventures. @InquisitiveScouter's recent river trek and upcoming hike and @qwazse's Jamboree leadership come to mind. If we arrange adventure, the kids will come.

[AwakeEnergyScouter]

2 minutes ago, yknot said:

BSA doesn't though, unless you're lucky enough to be in the right unit in the right council. It couldn't keep my sons interested long term, and they are intrepid outdoors kids. My oldest just went to Svalbard by himself on a trip he organized solo over spring break. 

If this is true, then there's the membership problem right there. We're not delivering our "core product".

We've got a right unit in a right council, which is exactly why I stepped up as a leader also.

[InquisitiveScouter]

Just now, AwakeEnergyScouter said:

If this is true, then there's the membership problem right there. We're not delivering our "core product".

We've got a right unit in a right council, which is exactly why I stepped up as a leader also.

Bingo.

[InquisitiveScouter]

59 minutes ago, AwakeEnergyScouter said:

If this is true, then there's the membership problem right there. We're not delivering our "core product".

We've got a right unit in a right council, which is exactly why I stepped up as a leader also.

@AwakeEnergyScouter, you see this confusion everywhere.

There is a common misconception that our "core product" is Eagle Scouts.  Ask parents what they want for their child out of Scouts, BSA... you'll get this answer most of the time.

Our core product is actually parsed out here:  "The Scouting program has specific objectives, commonly referred to as the “Aims of Scouting.” They are character development, leadership development, citizenship training, and personal fitness."

https://troopleader.scouting.org/scoutings-aims-and-methods/

[Or, in my words, we are about making youth into "physically, financially, and spiritually fit citizen-leaders who have the character needed make moral and ethical decisions."]

The adventure outdoors is just the "laboratory environment" where we meet these objectives.  But that laboratory is a crucial part of the overall experiment.

Although we advertise "Scouts BSA is the traditional Scouting experience where boys and girls can have their share of adventure in the great outdoors."

https://www.scouting.org/programs/scouts-bsa/

So, the real problem you come across is a lack of clarity on exactly what it is we are trying to do, and a lack of communication to the real target audience (parents, not kids) of what it is we are trying to "sell" them.

Then we have a problem with delivering on whatever promises we have made, or whatever promises we are perceived to have made, both to parents and to Scouts.

Which is why the great majority finish their Eagle rank and disappear.  

My grade overall, on how we do collectively as an organization is a C-.  For a myriad of reasons.  All IMO, of course.