More than 80 scouts sent to hospital from heat exhaustion at World Jamboree opening ceremony

[mrjohns2]

48 minutes ago, yknot said:

It's got to be the first time a WSJ was used to christen the destruction of a globally important environmental region. 

It is my understanding that the summit was the site of a mountain top mining where the tailings were used to fill the valleys and create the open untreed areas. So, the Korean Jamboree was the second? 

[Tron]

If we're going to go down this road of complaint I feel the need to point out that every major city in the world is built at the intersection of water and those cities all contain significant acreage of landfilled estuary and wetlands that were turned into developable land. 

[yknot]

18 hours ago, mrjohns2 said:

It is my understanding that the summit was the site of a mountain top mining where the tailings were used to fill the valleys and create the open untreed areas. So, the Korean Jamboree was the second? 

I did not and do not support Summit for many reasons but you can't compare the two. US Scouting at least attempted some environmental remediation of an existing damaged site where the damage started more than 100 years ago and largely concluded decades ago. Also, while the environmental damage was extreme locally, it was not a site of global importance for threated and endangered species. The South Korean site was a very high profile, very controversial, and very current example of extreme environmental destruction on a global scale and is everything the conservation minded scouting community should stand against. SBR is about 15 square miles; Saemangeum is about 160 square miles of intentional devastation. The scouting community allowed itself to be used by political interests attempting to legitimize what it had done. It's why those South Korean political interests poured so much money into showcasing the site and were so infuriated and incredulous when it fell apart. What I hope this does, however, is bring about a reconsideration of how, where, and why WSJ events are held in the future. From the US side, I think we need to be more judicious about whether we send contingents to WSJ. From the international side, as the report outlines, the world scouting community needs to take more interest and ownership in the safety and I would say suitability as far as alignment with our conservation credo when selecting sites. 

 

[yknot]

13 hours ago, Tron said:

If we're going to go down this road of complaint I feel the need to point out that every major city in the world is built at the intersection of water and those cities all contain significant acreage of landfilled estuary and wetlands that were turned into developable land. 

If that's the rationalization then I would say that in this as in so many things we have come to stand for nothing. We are -- or at least were -- an outdoors related conservation minded organization. 

[Tron]

12 hours ago, yknot said:

If that's the rationalization then I would say that in this as in so many things we have come to stand for nothing. We are -- or at least were -- an outdoors related conservation minded organization. 

If you're going to point a finger point a finger at everybody that has and still is doing it. I live in a major metropolitan location here in America and right now, right here, on your watch, this city and many others are landfilling estuary. Captain conservation, make a list of all the bad actors. 

[yknot]

12 hours ago, Tron said:

If you're going to point a finger point a finger at everybody that has and still is doing it. I live in a major metropolitan location here in America and right now, right here, on your watch, this city and many others are landfilling estuary. Captain conservation, make a list of all the bad actors. 

Is the US and international scouting community hosting WSJs on any of those sites and providing de facto political endorsement of those locations and activities by their presence? The answer is no. I'm not clear what line of argument you are attempting to follow. Is filling in of remaining US tidal flat habitat universally bad in an environmental sense? Yes. Is US scouting blatantly supporting those activities? No. Or at least I hope not. I haven't seen or heard of any US scout units participating in "Yay, we support destroying tidal habitat" service projects lately. But we did send a US contingent to Saemangeum and to a similarly problematic although smaller site in Japan in 2015.

Edited Sunday at 04:45 PM by yknot

[qwazse]

Things are a lot more positive when you have your hammock on a sandy plain with rice plants and praying mantis nymphs while the Italians host Catholic mass at sunset over the Yellow Sea. But put my biases aside …

On 4/12/2025 at 11:57 AM, yknot said:

… We are -- or at least were -- an outdoors related conservation minded organization. 

WOSM and BSA are youth movements. Nothing in either organizations’ mission statements speaks explicitly to environmental activism — certainly not above all other considerations. There is no reason to think that any member should turn down the opportunity to camp on a site merely because of the political controversy generated.

Our troop, during pre-tour, was privileged to have a guide who walked us through various challenges and ensuing protests that his country faced. He traced many to population density; some, to superstitions about building homes on mountain sides. Context makes one slower to judge.

[AwakeEnergyScouter]

59 minutes ago, qwazse said:

WOSM and BSA are youth movements. Nothing in either organizations’ mission statements speaks explicitly to environmental activism — certainly not above all other considerations.

From WOSM's web site https://www.scout.org/who-we-are/world-organization/about-organization :

"A Global Educational Youth Movement

Scouting's mission is to contribute to the education of young people through a value system based on the Scout Promise and Law. Through Scouting, we are building a better world where people are self-fulfilled as individuals and play a constructive role in society.

To be the world’s most inspiring and inclusive youth movement, creating transformative learning experiences for every young person, everywhere."

Point six of the Swedish Scout Law is "A scout gets to know and protects nature."

The sixth point isn't above points 1-5 or 7, of course. But having made a promise many times to do my best to follow the scout law, I certainly feel obliged towards environmental activism when the need arises.

Point six of the first version of the Scout Law was "a scout is kind to animals". That's not necessarily pointing to environmental activism taken literally, but we as a movement have clearly committed ourselves to being Earth protectors. See for example everything at https://www.scout.org/what-we-do/young-people-and-communities/environment, or more locally https://www.scouting.org/outdoor-programs/scouting-clean-waterways/

"Now more than ever, we need young people to stand up and take action around the challenges facing our communities and our planet. To promote human rights and act against injustice, to tackle climate change and promote gender equality, and to achieve the Sustainable Development Goals."

Ahmad Alhendawi

Secretary General, World Scouting (2017-2024)

 

[yknot]

8 hours ago, qwazse said:

 

WOSM and BSA are youth movements. Nothing in either organizations’ mission statements speaks explicitly to environmental activism — certainly not above all other considerations. There is no reason to think that any member should turn down the opportunity to camp on a site merely because of the political controversy generated.

BSA/SA. In order to achieve Scout rank, a scout has to recite the Outdoor Code, which explicitly delineates appropriate behavior in the outdoors and being conservation minded.  

WOSM: In addition to what Awake Energy posted, there is an explicit directive from the WOSM website:  

https://www.scout.org/what-we-do/young-people-and-communities/environment

Additionally, WOSM is partners with the World Wildlife Federation and the United Nations Environmental Program. Partnership means that you share the same philosophies.

As a parallel example of what codes and partnerships mean, BSA/SA has a youth protection code of conduct and partners with youth protection groups. Youth safety isn't explicitly written into our mission statement, but that doesn't mean BSA/SA would participate in events where youth safety would be at risk because you can find great hammocks and rice plants.