Scoutbook logging for Advancement

[Delphinus]

I'll start by saying that generally, I like Scoutbook and the functionality it offers for tracking Scout advancement. What are you seeing in your Troops? What I've seen is that our Troop only records requirements completed in the hardcopy Scout Handbooks. Then, when a Scout achieves the rank, the Troop Advancement Chair just checks the completion of that rank in Scoutbook. This bypasses a lot of the functionality inherent in Scoutbook that enables online tracking of the individual rank requirements. percentage complete towards the next ranks, etc.

Is there a preferred or even an official standard for how Troops should use Scoutbook for tracking advancement? 

  

[mrjohns2]

11 minutes ago, Delphinus said:

Is there a preferred or even an official standard for how Troops should use Scoutbook for tracking advancement? 

It is up to the unit to use it how it works for them. 

[Eagle94-A1]

1 hour ago, Delphinus said:

I'll start by saying that generally, I like Scoutbook and the functionality it offers for tracking Scout advancement. What are you seeing in your Troops? What I've seen is that our Troop only records requirements completed in the hardcopy Scout Handbooks. Then, when a Scout achieves the rank, the Troop Advancement Chair just checks the completion of that rank in Scoutbook. This bypasses a lot of the functionality inherent in Scoutbook that enables online tracking of the individual rank requirements. percentage complete towards the next ranks, etc.

Is there a preferred or even an official standard for how Troops should use Scoutbook for tracking advancement? 

  

There are a variety of reasons why units do not use SCOUTBOOK.

1. SCOUTBOOK does have a history of dropping data, and incorrect data, so units do not consider reliable. In fact whenever discrepancies have been found between a council's records and the handbook's records, the handbook overrides the online records because that contains the actual, physical, signatures. I have had Scouts up for Eagle being told they are only First Class because of dropped records. I have Scouts whose histories are incorrect with wrong information listed, and in some cases unchangeable.

Worst case example was adult training. I spent 18+ months getting my district's training records updated because no one was listed a s trained. within 24 months of me turning in the information to get fixed, all those records disappeared. Thankfully I had the original work on hand ,and only had to collect folks who had done training since the original project.

2. Some areas of the country do not have reliable internet. There are large areas in my council that do not have highspeed internet, and in a few cases internet at all. During the pandemic we had students in parking lots and on benches at school campuses using the schools wifi because they either the internet was too sow, or nonexistant.

3. A handbook is a lot easier to carry camping, and internet service may be spotty where you are at. 

4. SCOUTBOOK does not allow youth to sign off on advancement, only adults with authorization can do advancement. This defeats the purpose of Scouting.

5. The most important thing to remember is that (emphasis) THE SCOUT HANDBOOK IS THE OFFICIAL RECORD AS THE SIGNATURES AE IN IT. As I stated in #1 above, whenever there are discrepancies or missing information, the handbook is used to fix the electronic records, not the other way around. I cannot tell you how many times in my 31 years as a Scouter that I have seen electronic advancement records missing or incorrect over the years. This includes records that I had submitted either by hand pre-INTERNET ADVANCEMENT, or records I personally inputted, and were missing. 

[mrjohns2]

10 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

SCOUTBOOK does have a history of dropping data

Every time (literally every time) someone posts to the Scoutbook forum with data being dropped, it is figured out. It has NEVER been lost. Sometimes, the Scout had created a new account and then it appears it is all missing. It is sorted out pretty quickly.  

[Eagle94-A1]

On 8/2/2023 at 9:26 PM, mrjohns2 said:

Every time (literally every time) someone posts to the Scoutbook forum with data being dropped, it is figured out. It has NEVER been lost. Sometimes, the Scout had created a new account and then it appears it is all missing. It is sorted out pretty quickly.  

Then why did I have to submit training records twice in a 3 year period? Why have I had to resubmit records multiple times? Heck I have gone in and fixed things, only to have information missing or inaccurate? Heck it got to the point that one of my Eagles does not care that the record has the wrong date of him earning Eagle.

[DuctTape]

On 8/2/2023 at 9:29 AM, Delphinus said:

I'll start by saying that generally, I like Scoutbook and the functionality it offers for tracking Scout advancement. What are you seeing in your Troops? What I've seen is that our Troop only records requirements completed in the hardcopy Scout Handbooks. Then, when a Scout achieves the rank, the Troop Advancement Chair just checks the completion of that rank in Scoutbook. This bypasses a lot of the functionality inherent in Scoutbook that enables online tracking of the individual rank requirements. percentage complete towards the next ranks, etc.

Is there a preferred or even an official standard for how Troops should use Scoutbook for tracking advancement? 

  

IMO

ScoutBook is for the adults and the troop for record keeping. The HandBook is for the Scouts for their record keeping. 

There is no official standard for using ScoutBook, except for if/when it interferes with the Scout's personal role in their own advancement as a method of Scouting. If the adults "take over" the majority of the purposes of advancement as a method  (motivation, planning, record keeping, communication, etc...) then the Scout does not benefit from advancement as a method, it simply becomes a checkbox.

 

Edited August 4, 2023 by DuctTape

[mrjohns2]

3 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Then why did I have to submit training records twice in a 3 year period? Why have I had to resubmit records multiple times?

Training isn’t tracked in Scoutbook. In my.scouting? I would guess you have multiple IDs. 
 

One doesn’t “submit” records into Scoutbook. Are you talking about internet advancement? Even then, I bet it wasn’t lost. 
 

They have too many systems. I bet your records weren’t lost but spread amongst different user ids. 

3 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Heck it got to the point that one of my Eagles does not care that the record has the wrong date of him earning Eagle.

That isn’t a Scoutbook issue, but a council issue. They are the ones who record (and can change) the date. 

[Eagle94-A1]

2 hours ago, mrjohns2 said:

Training isn’t tracked in Scoutbook. In my.scouting?... They have too many systems.

Agree too many system, and  they have too many issues. Whichever system system tracks training, records FOR ALL VOLUNTEER IN MY COUNCIL ( emphasis) went MIA twice in a 5 year period.

 

2 hours ago, mrjohns2 said:

I would guess you have multiple IDs.

Yes i do have multiple ID numbers from the 6 councils I have been in over the years. But I've been in my current council for some time, and the records have been corrected using my current ID.

But you reminded me that I am still waiting for a promise made in 1998 by BSA's CIO that SCOUTNET 2000 would easily transfer records as you move councils. All your ID numbers were suppose to be automatically connected.

2 hours ago, mrjohns2 said:

 Even then, I bet it wasn’t lost.

Well if my and every volunteer in my council's records were not lost, why did the registrar ask everyone to submit training records to her twice in a 5 year period?

2 hours ago, mrjohns2 said:

That isn’t a Scoutbook issue, but a council issue. They are the ones who record (and can change) the date. 

 Eagle is the latest example. Scoutbook has dropped rank advancement, even stuff I personally inputted, and printed reports for. Also for some reason my records got altered for my Scouts? Scoutbook says they were members of a pack that did not exist when they were Cubs.

[mrjohns2]

4 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Well if my and every volunteer in my council's records were not lost, why did the registrar ask everyone to submit training records to her twice in a 5 year period?

Again, these aren't in Scoutbook. 

[Eagle94-A1]

13 hours ago, mrjohns2 said:

Again, these aren't in Scoutbook. 

I understand, but you did state:

 

20 hours ago, mrjohns2 said:

 ...Even then, I bet it wasn’t lost.

and I responded. And yes, the records were lost, deleted, etc.

Let's face it, BSA's technology is horrible.  Most of the CIOs had none, zero, zip IT experience.  They were a former SEs who put their time in. I know 1 person in that position with an IT background, and he left in approximately 6 months. Do not know who has been in charge since him.

[NDW5332]

On 8/2/2023 at 9:56 AM, Eagle94-A1 said:

4. SCOUTBOOK does not allow youth to sign off on advancement, only adults with authorization can do advancement. This defeats the purpose of Scouting.

Scoutbook will allow a youth to mark items as "complete" and it would be up to the Scoutmaster, one of the designated ASM's, or the Advancement Chair to Approve the requirement.

[Eagle94-A1]

54 minutes ago, NDW5332 said:

Scoutbook will allow a youth to mark items as "complete" and it would be up to the Scoutmaster, one of the designated ASM's, or the Advancement Chair to Approve the requirement.

Again, if the SM designates a youth to sign off on advancement, SCOOUTBOOK will not allow it to be approved.  An adult has to approve it, which defeats the purpose of Scouting in general, and the Patrol Methods specifically. 

[NDW5332]

1 hour ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Again, if the SM designates a youth to sign off on advancement, SCOOUTBOOK will not allow it to be approved.  An adult has to approve it, which defeats the purpose of Scouting in general, and the Patrol Methods specifically. 

I've found that for cross-overs where parents have set up some Scouts' Scoutbook accounts, those permissions sometimes carry over.  That's why a thorough review process always needs to be in place.  We had one scout that "earned" himself the Chess Merit Badge by marking the requirements complete himself, independent of any Counselor or SM review.  Scoutbook showed it as "earned" on his advancement report even though SM or Advancement Chair had not "approved" it.

[HashTagScouts]

25 minutes ago, NDW5332 said:

I've found that for cross-overs where parents have set up some Scouts' Scoutbook accounts, those permissions sometimes carry over.  That's why a thorough review process always needs to be in place.  We had one scout that "earned" himself the Chess Merit Badge by marking the requirements complete himself, independent of any Counselor or SM review.  Scoutbook showed it as "earned" on his advancement report even though SM or Advancement Chair had not "approved" it.

Unfortunately, I think you are missing the point that @Eagle94-A1is getting at- in some units, only Scouts sign-off when it comes to rank advancement requirements. In our troop, we do not want adult leaders signing requirements for Scout-First Class, we only want any other Scout that is Star/Life/Eagle doing it. SM can get their QA check at SM conference, which is more a learning experience for the SM to have with the Scout who did the signing if there is an issue. SB bypasses that stuff. We have really only had one Scout who ever took to trying to mark things in SB anyway, so not a real issue to us as we stick to the handbook usage. Advancement Chair only does data entry to SB after a SM conference occurs and the BoR is getting scheduled. 

[InquisitiveScouter]

3 hours ago, NDW5332 said:

Scoutbook will allow a youth to mark items as "complete" and it would be up to the Scoutmaster, one of the designated ASM's, or the Advancement Chair to Approve the requirement.

We make it clear that this monkey is on the Scout's back.

That is, the Scout is responsible for completing and tracking his own advancement.  If he wants to mark something complete in Scoutbook, fine.  He must then go to any youth who is approved to sign off, or to the assigned Assistant Scoutmaster for his Patrol, to get things signed in his Scout Handbook.  Once the Handbook is signed, he notifies the ASM, who then marks completions in Scoutbook.  The Handbook is primary.  Scoutbook is a back up (for when the Scout loses his Handbook 😜 )

We even have our Scouts contact our Advancement Chair to request scheduling their Boards of Review.

Pro tip:  We use a highlighter to mark things in the Handbook when they are approved in Scoutbook.  That way, at a glance at the Scout's Handbook, we can tell if he is shepherding his own advancement.

Edited August 17, 2023 by InquisitiveScouter