mrjohns2 Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 Camping was in the purpose. There is a camping requirement. Ok. Some, not all, lodges had a "where to go camping book" and some, not all, promoted summer camp. Ok. It always seemed to be a force fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armymutt Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 The emphasis on camping and Arrowmen being "campers" has been curtailed. What's funny is that our council has been asking for units to submit ideas on where to go camping. Like we don't have an organization that used to have that as a mission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagledad Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 ""For over 100 years, the Order of the Arrow (OA) has recognized Scouts and Scouters who best exemplify the Scout Oath and Law in their daily lives. This recognition provides encouragement for others to live these ideals as well. Arrowmen are known for maintaining camping traditions and spirit, promoting year-round and long term resident camping, and providing cheerful service to others."" Like BSA National, OA leaders lost their understanding of the virtues that made Arrowmen exceptional scouts. Camping and cheerful service are full-time responsibilities of themselves. Arrowmen in my council, when I was a scout, were the special forces of scouts. They exemplified living the Scout Oath and Law and they were experts on outdoor skills. Honestly, I was shocked what OA had turned into when I came back in the mid 90s to be a leader. If I were to go back into scouts, BIG IF, it would be to fix OA in our District. Scouts would be held to always wearing the uniform published in the Scout handbook (only one recognition for OA). Arrowmen would be expected to camp with their troop monthly to be role models for outddoor skills, Cheerful service, and living the Scout Law. They would be trained and expected to know all the skills in the Scout Handbook. They would have a minimum expectation of attending leading service teams, and meetings would be held to train skills and learn and reinforce the virtues of Cheerful Service, Scout Oath, and law. Scouts willing to be held responsible for those expectations would be the best of the best and set the standard for all scouts to strive for. Yes, it would be hard work, but it would sort out those scouts and Scoutmasters just looking for another patch. It would not be a program that is attractive to older scouts; it would be a program attracted to dedicated mature scouts. OA would once again be a true scouting honor society. Barry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InquisitiveScouter Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 3 hours ago, Eagledad said: ""For over 100 years, the Order of the Arrow (OA) has recognized Scouts and Scouters who best exemplify the Scout Oath and Law in their daily lives. This recognition provides encouragement for others to live these ideals as well. Arrowmen are known for maintaining camping traditions and spirit, promoting year-round and long term resident camping, and providing cheerful service to others."" Like BSA National, OA leaders lost their understanding of the virtues that made Arrowmen exceptional scouts. Camping and cheerful service are full-time responsibilities of themselves. Arrowmen in my council, when I was a scout, were the special forces of scouts. They exemplified living the Scout Oath and Law and they were experts on outdoor skills. Honestly, I was shocked what OA had turned into when I came back in the mid 90s to be a leader. If I were to go back into scouts, BIG IF, it would be to fix OA in our District. Scouts would be held to always wearing the uniform published in the Scout handbook (only one recognition for OA). Arrowmen would be expected to camp with their troop monthly to be role models for outddoor skills, Cheerful service, and living the Scout Law. They would be trained and expected to know all the skills in the Scout Handbook. They would have a minimum expectation of attending leading service teams, and meetings would be held to train skills and learn and reinforce the virtues of Cheerful Service, Scout Oath, and law. Scouts willing to be held responsible for those expectations would be the best of the best and set the standard for all scouts to strive for. Yes, it would be hard work, but it would sort out those scouts and Scoutmasters just looking for another patch. It would not be a program that is attractive to older scouts; it would be a program attracted to dedicated mature scouts. OA would once again be a true scouting honor society. Barry Ah, the good old days. OA is but a shadow of its former self... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
satl8 Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 Will just drop this here... OA New Vision, Mission, and Purpose. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrjohns2 Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 10 minutes ago, satl8 said: Will just drop this here... See the quote below from that page. I didn’t catch what he did there at first. Can you spot the change in restatement about what is not changing? “It’s also important to note what’s not changing: we remain Scouting’s National Honor Society; fellowship, cheerfulness and service remain at the core of who we are;” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InquisitiveScouter Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 (edited) 14 minutes ago, mrjohns2 said: See the quote below from that page. I didn’t catch what he did there at first. Can you spot the change in restatement about what is not changing? “It’s also important to note what’s not changing: we remain Scouting’s National Honor Society; fellowship, cheerfulness and service remain at the core of who we are;” Fortunately, one Lenni Lenape word for "Fellowship" is Witauchsundowagan. So, also begins with W! No need to change logos!! "...that binds us in fellowship, Witauchsundowagan." Hmmm... have to add a few more notes to the song. Meh, we are changing everything else, why not!!?? Edited September 3 by InquisitiveScouter 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HashTagScouts Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 22 hours ago, Eagledad said: f I were to go back into scouts, BIG IF, it would be to fix OA in our District. Scouts would be held to always wearing the uniform published in the Scout handbook (only one recognition for OA). Arrowmen would be expected to camp with their troop monthly to be role models for outddoor skills, Cheerful service, and living the Scout Law. They would be trained and expected to know all the skills in the Scout Handbook. They would have a minimum expectation of attending leading service teams, and meetings would be held to train skills and learn and reinforce the virtues of Cheerful Service, Scout Oath, and law. And you'd pretty much be shown the door... It was why I left. For the National org, they ultimately need to take a giant step back and re-evaluate what they do. I know that there was a lot of hand-wringing last year that NOAC attendance in TN didn't meet expectations (and looks to be the same this year in CO), and that NLS attendance has been a concern. Well, maybe having NOAC at a large university is no longer the need, and maybe a mid-sized university (or even Summit) is better. You won't quite have the hotels for staff and air-con dorms for youth attendees, but that isn't really the important part... As for NLS, under the new two-region structure, it's a great distance for many to attend. We used to rely on only having to go as far as NJ from New England for NLS (and got fortunate that at times they would hold one a year somewhere in New England). Now they want folks to travel to Pittsburgh, Maryland, Alabama, etc. Sorry, NLS is good, but it ain't that good that I'd spend $1,000 on airfare to travel for it, nor ask a teenager to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagledad Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 2 hours ago, mrjohns2 said: See the quote below from that page. I didn’t catch what he did there at first. Can you spot the change in restatement about what is not changing? “It’s also important to note what’s not changing: we remain Scouting’s National Honor Society; fellowship, cheerfulness and service remain at the core of who we are;” You mean the CHEERFUL SERVICE to others? They are doing to OA what they did to Wood Badge: keeping the name of honor but changing the program to fit a different agenda. Barry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattR Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 2 hours ago, satl8 said: Will just drop this here... OA New Vision, Mission, and Purpose. I read this and what caught my attention was that the OA has, essentially, taken on the role of keeper of the flame for SA (Twitter, no!, X, no!, BSA, got it!). Joking aside, I wish them luck. If national is okay with this then ... maybe that's a way to participate? The OA asked for feedback. That's a change. The comment that troops are now much smaller is the first honest description of some of the problems troops are facing. More support for at least troops via something other than district beaurocracy sounds good to me, even though it sounds hard. Maybe the OA can come up with better training? I really wish them luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrjohns2 Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 My wife got a good laugh last night when I said a friend I was corresponding with was the only person I knew that had the OA DSA. I said that they give out about 40 every 2 years. It used to be more like 25-30, but they have increased it. She was like “Oh! This is the org that has much smaller numbers than in the past? The ship is sinking, let’s make sure our buddies get the award before it is gone!” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrjohns2 Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 3 hours ago, HashTagScouts said: NLS attendance has been a concern. NLS “Chicago” (in Wisconsin west of Kenosha) seemed well attended by youth and adults. At least as good as the NLS I attended in 1992 in central IL. I really liked DYLC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HashTagScouts Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 12 minutes ago, mrjohns2 said: NLS “Chicago” (in Wisconsin west of Kenosha) seemed well attended by youth and adults. At least as good as the NLS I attended in 1992 in central IL. I really liked DYLC. The programs are still good. Locations are the issue. Nearly every lodge in our section would have several youth attend each year. Aside from one weekend in New Jersey, the next closest one for our Region is in Nashville, TN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetterWithCheddar Posted September 7 Share Posted September 7 On 9/3/2024 at 1:37 PM, satl8 said: Will just drop this here... OA New Vision, Mission, and Purpose. I read this twice and I'm still not really sure what it means. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrjohns2 Posted September 8 Share Posted September 8 On 9/7/2024 at 6:23 AM, BetterWithCheddar said: I read this twice and I'm still not really sure what it means. You make a good point. To me, it is clear that there is more meaning in a number of their statements then they let on. An example is non-OA scouts at NOAC being the norm. At least that is what it implies. They seem to be very leading statements without the conclusions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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