Motivation or Threat?

[MattR]

7 minutes ago, 5thGenTexan said:

I DO NOT like conflict, so I probably havent done what I should do to try to correct the problem.  I am not really sure as CC how much I can get into what the SM does and how the program is run. 

Only the masochistic like conflict. Firing people sucks.

Technically, the SM reports to the CC. You don't want to micromanage the SM but there's nothing wrong with finding another.

13 minutes ago, 5thGenTexan said:

I kinda feel like me and a couple of others are all that stands in the way of that. 

Oh, so you're not alone. Tell us about these others. Can any of them be SM? Are any of them used to big changes? From work or elsewhere?

Honestly, all the things you've been talking about lead to one problem - the troop culture. And that only changes with real leadership. That means very little conflict. If someone, and it doesn't have to be you, can sit down with the SM and say the troop culture has to change, this is generally what it needs to move towards, I see your strengths as ..., are you interested, do you want to talk, or, do you want to step down?

People that are good managers can do this. It's not about why the SM is doing a lousy job, it's about what the troop culture is going to be. Ideally the SM can decide that he wants a change (either a change in how things are done or he steps down).

You have a bunch of good ideas. What you need now are people that can help you turn those ideas into reality. If you don't want to have a tough talk with the SM but someone else says, sure I can do that, then use their strengths. If you find someone that likes your ideas, likes camping with the scouts but is unsure about being an SM, then just keep talking up your vision until they see that maybe they would do okay as SM.

It's not about conflict, it's about relentless optimism. Something will work, you just keep trying until you find it.

[5thGenTexan]

16 minutes ago, MattR said:

Tell us about these others. Can any of them be SM? Are any of them used to big changes? From work or elsewhere

We were a FUMC Unit up until recently of course.  We are now chartered by our local American Legion Post.  COR is an Air Force Vet AND an Eagle Scout from our Troop.  I met with him recently and we discussed issues for an hour.  He doesnt want to get in the middle of it, but seemed to be supportive of what we need to do.  He wasn't particularly happy with what I was telling him.

Our Advancement Chair was a Scout in another state, but is really well versed in how things should run as outlined by the BSA.

We have a new parent, to the Troop but was a DL in the Pack.  He is police officer that runs an BSA Police Explorer program and an Eagle Scout.  He will not let his Scout go to events if a few of us are not there due to his dissatisfaction with the current leadership.

We have a few parents on the committee who are against what we have suggested the Scouts NEED to be doing as far as PLC, meeting planning, general leadership things because they are just kids and they dont want to or cant handle what we are suggesting.

We have parents who have signed up for Committee postions, but never see them other than when they drop off of their kid and they never help out. 

 

I am going to propose all Committee Members are required to be fully trained regardless of what the BSA says.  I mean YPT, Hazardous Weather, Position Specific.  SM/ASM must also be trained in the position.  Otherwise I am offering the option to be Unit Scouter Reserve if they want to be involved but not really commit to anything.  I was told I am "railroading" people with that approach and I will lose adults, BUT I dont have those adults helping out anyway.  So no loss as I see it.

[5thGenTexan]

8 hours ago, scoutldr said:

Have all the adults and youth leaders been "Trained" in their positions?  Do they attend Roundtable?  Are those "teaching" the MB registered and trained MBC?

No.  SM has YPT and IOLS from 2016.  That is all.  Never attended a Roundtable, EVER.  ASM missed a class at summer camp last year to finish IOLS, but otherwise trained.  He is following the lead of the SM.  55% of our adult leadership is NOT trained.

We (a couple of us) offered to spend a Saturday doing an ILST course because none of the Scouts have any training and we were shot down by the SM.  He wanted to show videos on a TV on a campout somehow.

None of our adults ever attend a roundtable.

MBCs are registered as counselors.  However they are driving teaching MBs to everyone during meetings.

[Eagle_Chris]

@5thGenTexan - Your posts are very thoughtful and you care about the Scouting program a lot, but it seems like you have a Troop that has many challenges, my advice follows others and look for a different unit, even if it means a drive.

Also, it seems like based posts and how involved you want to be, you are also in the wrong volunteer role - as a Committee Chairman/Chairwoman your role is not to setup camp outs/events, structure meetings, help the PLC during meetings, etc   The Committee is there to support the program that the PLC plans (logistics, fundraising, equipment, etc).  You may want to consider becoming an Assistant Scoutmaster based on how involved you'd like to be.  This would give you more opportunities to help guide the Scouts in the unit to the BSA methods.

As far as your SM, it's the role of the Chartered Organization to select and approve adult leaders, not the CC, members of the committee, or ASMs.  If you are having challenges with your SM, you should setup time with your Chartered Organization (Executive Officer, COR) to discuss your concerns.  They have a lot of responsibility as a Chartered Organization - one of them is selecting and approving adult volunteers.  Your Chartered Organization may want the program ran the way your unit is operating, or they may not even be aware.

[5thGenTexan]

15 minutes ago, Eagle_Chris said:

 

As far as your SM, it's the role of the Chartered Organization to select and approve adult leaders, not the CC, members of the committee, or ASMs.  If you are having challenges with your SM, you should setup time with your Chartered Organization (Executive Officer, COR) to discuss your concerns.  They have a lot of responsibility as a Chartered Organization - one of them is selecting and approving adult volunteers.  Your Chartered Organization may want the program ran the way your unit is operating, or they may not even be aware.

Thats the way it works on paper, but not in our world.  We have a new CO and they don't want any involvement in what we do.  COR hopes to find another "old guy" at the Legion so he doesnt have to mess with it.  Previous CO was FUMC, they didnt get involved in what we were doing either.

But the CO and COR is not selecting anyone here and never has.  When they sign an app, its just a thing they have to come do.  Current SM is the SM because no one else was going to do it two years ago. 

I along with a couple of others are the only ones that care about the program being run as its designed. 

[Eagle_Chris]

@5thGenTexan - it sounds like your CO hasn't read the annual rechartering agreement they signed up for and doesn't understand their responsibilities.

https://www.scouting.org/resources/internet-rechartering/

II. The Charter Organization agrees to:

A. Generally
1. Conduct the Scouting program consistent with BSA rules, regulations, and policies located on the My.Scouting website and
online at: www.scouting.org/about/membership-standards/.
2. Coordinate with the Local Council to provide annual recruitment opportunities to grow the BSA movement as well as
publicize BSA through in-house publications.
3. Refrain from using the Scouting brand as a means to imply BSA’s endorsement of the objectives of the Charter
Organization, except with respect to youth development, consistent with the goals and objectives of the Scouting
program. Refrain from soliciting financial support except as authorized for the benefit of the Unit or the Local Council.
4. Select a Charter Organization Representative (COR) to serve as a voting member of the council.

B. Management and Leadership
1. Reasonably support the Scouting Unit Committee, comprised of at least three members for each Unit.
2. Review and select all adult leaders, subject to the approval of the Local Council, and ensure they are willing to accept
Scouting’s values and meet all other requirements of membership.
3. Administer the assets of the Unit, including all funds, real property, and personal property (e.g., trailers) that are acquired
by the Unit either for the benefit of Scouting or in the name of Scouting and administer the assets for the benefit of the
Unit.
4. Authorize the unit to open a separate bank account for the Unit using the Charter Organization EIN and provide the Unit
with policies and procedures for financial reporting and asset management.
5. Follow all Guide to Safe Scouting requirements to ensure the adequate review and inspection of trailers, and other assets.

C. Use of Facilities
1. Work with the Unit to secure safe facilities for regular meetings.

[5thGenTexan]

8 minutes ago, Eagle_Chris said:

@5thGenTexan - it sounds like your CO hasn't read the annual rechartering agreement they signed up for and doesn't understand their responsibilities.

https://www.scouting.org/resources/internet-rechartering/

II. The Charter Organization agrees to:

A. Generally
1. Conduct the Scouting program consistent with BSA rules, regulations, and policies located on the My.Scouting website and
online at: www.scouting.org/about/membership-standards/.
2. Coordinate with the Local Council to provide annual recruitment opportunities to grow the BSA movement as well as
publicize BSA through in-house publications.
3. Refrain from using the Scouting brand as a means to imply BSA’s endorsement of the objectives of the Charter
Organization, except with respect to youth development, consistent with the goals and objectives of the Scouting
program. Refrain from soliciting financial support except as authorized for the benefit of the Unit or the Local Council.
4. Select a Charter Organization Representative (COR) to serve as a voting member of the council.

B. Management and Leadership
1. Reasonably support the Scouting Unit Committee, comprised of at least three members for each Unit.
2. Review and select all adult leaders, subject to the approval of the Local Council, and ensure they are willing to accept
Scouting’s values and meet all other requirements of membership.
3. Administer the assets of the Unit, including all funds, real property, and personal property (e.g., trailers) that are acquired
by the Unit either for the benefit of Scouting or in the name of Scouting and administer the assets for the benefit of the
Unit.
4. Authorize the unit to open a separate bank account for the Unit using the Charter Organization EIN and provide the Unit
with policies and procedures for financial reporting and asset management.
5. Follow all Guide to Safe Scouting requirements to ensure the adequate review and inspection of trailers, and other assets.

C. Use of Facilities
1. Work with the Unit to secure safe facilities for regular meetings.

I understand all of that.  We were a FUMC Unit.  Our COR with the FUMC would come to Committee Meetings. but generally just signed adult apps that we asked to be signed.  I am glad we found someone that would charter us at all without have to be a Council chartered Unit.  

I can't make the CO be more involved.

Edited July 26, 2023 by 5thGenTexan

[5thGenTexan]

Have a meeting with the IH and COR next week.  Talked to the DE this morning at our popcorn meeting and he is going to come by at our next Troop Meeting to see how things are.  (We don't have District Commissioners really)

[InquisitiveScouter]

On 7/26/2023 at 8:55 AM, Eagle94-A1 said:

Mixed emotions on MBs at meetings.

One one hand, I do not think they should be done all the time and the primary focus of all meetings. Scouting is not suppose to be school. You will lose Scouts.

On the other hand, if the troop's activity for the month has a MB, and some prep work needs to be done AND the prep work is MB related, I do not see a problem. Best example I can give of this is Canoeing MB. We had a canoe trip planned, and the meeting before it were prep work i.e. part of a canoe, paddle etc, packing for water trips, strokes, etc. we even moved the meeting to a nearby lake to practice on the water before the trip.

But in  rare cases will an entire MB be completed at the meetings.

I am all about the SKILLS for a MB being taught at a meeting, but then the Scout must take that skill to his MB Counselor and demonstrate it to his counselor's satisfaction...

Meetings should not be about requirements.  Instead, there should be skills instruction, and perhaps a competition built around that skill...

[SiouxRanger]

37 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

I am all about the SKILLS for a MB being taught at a meeting, but then the Scout must take that skill to his MB Counselor and demonstrate it to his counselor's satisfaction...

Meetings should not be about requirements.  Instead, there should be skills instruction, and perhaps a competition built around that skill...

Yep.

1.  Scouts hear skills and get to practice them. (Once)

2.  Write them down. (Twice)

3.  Review to meet with MB Counselor ((Thrice)

4.  Explain to MB Counselor (???)  (Ah ha-this is a "look-before-you-leap" situation..." 4th"?  That's not really a good answer...FRICE. (Well, the suggestion of one source-apparently no accepted term for 4th in the sequence. ))

Scouts have to work though the material about frice times-lots of rehearsals of the material to aid in recall.  Not perfect but better than having to wake them up to give them their Blue Card.

Every time I reviewed my college notes for an exam I'd put a tick mark in the upper right hand corner.  Four tick marks and I was done with review.