Uniforms "Required"

[NDW5332]

58 minutes ago, DannyG said:

BOR is never denied. It is postponed until the scout is fully prepared. 

Fun story from my Troop before I took over as Advancement Chair.  We had a Scout, through no fault of his own, do his Eagle BOR wearing his sweaty, muddy, grass stained high school lacrosse team uniform.

So how did this happen? The Scout provided three dates and times he was available for his BOR.  The District Advancement Chair said OK to the latest date.  Scout makes plans for other days.  However District Advancement Chair actually scheduled it for the wrong date and time.  BOR is waiting for Scout and Scoutmaster, calls both, can't get a hold of either. Calls Scout's mom. Mom gives the District Advancement Chair an earful (because she was copied on the e-mail with the original later date), but now he and the other BOR members can't do the originally agreed upon date, might need to postpone at least a month.  Mom knows son really wants this, so she goes to his school and pulls him out of his lacrosse game and drags him to the BOR. 

He earned his Eagle that day.

[skeptic]

Over time I have sat on one or two boards where similar circumstances brought the youth not attired as we prefer.  But, in our district we would never not do the board.  Most of the time it was due to an adult issue, or uncooperative coaches, sadly.  The kind that give ultimatums.  Another was he was on a dinner break from his employment.  But, since it is the youth we are evaluating, not his attire, it should not matter.  And often, these small glitches can lead to more open communication.  

 

[Eagledad]

1 minute ago, skeptic said:

Over time I have sat on one or two boards where similar circumstances brought the youth not attired as we prefer.  But, in our district we would never not do the board.  Most of the time it was due to an adult issue, or uncooperative coaches, sadly.  The kind that give ultimatums.  Another was he was on a diner break from his employment.  But, since it is the youth we are evaluating, not his attire, it should not matter.  And often, these small glitches can lead to more open communication.  

 

I once asked a scout if the choice of not wearing the uniform as expected was a right or wrong choice. He knew it was wrong.

I agree there are circumstances when the scout doesn't have a choice to wear the uniform, but often it is just an excuse. One scout walks in from baseball practice and joins in the activities because he didn't have time to change. Another goes strait to the bathroom and changes and arrives a couple minutes later. Which sets the better example? I had the same situation with adults.

You may not be evaluating the scouts attire, but you should be evaluating his choices, even with the uniform. Which leads to more communication.

I guess the uniform is a small thing for a lot of adults and too weighted for others. We all have our priorities. But, I taught that the uniform has equal impact on the scouts growth as the many other tools used to force hard choices. What is important is how the adult uses the uniform as a tool. Some adults use it for an opportunity of power. Some adults use the use the uniform to give the scouts opportunities to show integrity. 

Barry 

[seattlecyclone]

Interesting discussion. I would have perhaps thought that uniforming among adults would be helpful to set a good example for the youth. However the norm in my son's pack is that adults very rarely wear uniforms. The Cubmaster will usually be the only uniformed adult (if any) at most meetings. Assistant Cubmasters will wear a uniform a few times a year for the bigger award ceremonies, while most den leaders and other adults don't even have uniforms. And yet, the kids all have uniforms, with insignia mostly in the right place, and they wear them frequently. I'm sure it's different at the Scouts BSA level where such clothing is seen as very much uncool and they may need all the encouragement in the world to wear it.

[skeptic]

As far as I am aware, uniforms for adult volunteers are still tax deductible if you itemize; keep receipts and be reasonable.  Not sure about the youth uniforms, have to check on that.  But do not believe they are, thouogh maybe in some instances.  Similarly, properly receipted gas and vehicle wear is deductible, and a milage count is still able to be listed at whatever the current cents per mile is; again,  be able to verify in some manner.  For example, when I still had enough info to itemize, I had determined the milage to our meeting place and the scout office and kept a roough record of how many trips.  Ten miles rt to the meeting times usually about 25 times with meetings and outings and service.  Twenty rt to the office, twice a month on averrage.  Trips depended on whether scouts chipped in some way which often occurred at parent insistence on longer trips.  If not, then again the map milage was the figure.  Gear is a bit more unclear, though I suspect some may fall into the catgory, especially if donated to the unit.  Adults also can deduct reasonable lost income if they go to camp as a leader, and also any training like Woodbadge.  Online not deductible, only ones that are a drive to and from, and maybe meals if not fed.  I also deducted the cost of recognition events at half the cost if it was a dinner of some sort.  

 

Edited July 6, 2023 by skeptic

[NDW5332]

19 hours ago, skeptic said:

As far as I am aware, uniforms for adult volunteers are still tax deductible if you itemize; keep receipts and be reasonable.  Not sure about the youth uniforms, have to check on that.  But do not believe they are, thouogh maybe in some instances.  Similarly, properly receipted gas and vehicle wear is deductible, and a milage count is still able to be listed at whatever the current cents per mile is; again,  be able to verify in some manner.  For example, when I still had enough info to itemize, I had determined the milage to our meeting place and the scout office and kept a roough record of how many trips.  Ten miles rt to the meeting times usually about 25 times with meetings and outings and service.  Twenty rt to the office, twice a month on averrage.  Trips depended on whether scouts chipped in some way which often occurred at parent insistence on longer trips.  If not, then again the map milage was the figure.  Gear is a bit more unclear, though I suspect some may fall into the catgory, especially if donated to the unit.  Adults also can deduct reasonable lost income if they go to camp as a leader, and also any training like Woodbadge.  Online not deductible, only ones that are a drive to and from, and maybe meals if not fed.  I also deducted the cost of recognition events at half the cost if it was a dinner of some sort.  

 

A couple of years ago, when doing my taxes, my accountant said the only thing I could deduct from my Scouting volunteering was cash donations (like FOS) and mileage driven.  Anything I did for myself, including uniforms, equipment, training (University of Scouting) and den activity costs, wasn't deductible.

[skeptic]

31 minutes ago, NDW5332 said:

A couple of years ago, when doing my taxes, my accountant said the only thing I could deduct from my Scouting volunteering was cash donations (like FOS) and mileage driven.  Anything I did for myself, including uniforms, equipment, training (University of Scouting) and den activity costs, wasn't deductible.

Hopefully someone here can clarify or update.  As I noted, itemizing no longer is viable for me at my age.  So, maybe it has changed, or the data is not clear.

 

[DannyG]

1 hour ago, NDW5332 said:

A couple of years ago, when doing my taxes, my accountant said the only thing I could deduct from my Scouting volunteering was cash donations (like FOS) and mileage driven.  Anything I did for myself, including uniforms, equipment, training (University of Scouting) and den activity costs, wasn't deductible.

Cash donations and mileage are certainly deductible. So are property donations, uniforms, and expenses for volunteer work.  

https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2020/02/14/tax-time/

• Quote

   

  • On IRS Form 1040, “2019 Instructions for Schedule A” [PDF], the Boy Scouts of America is listed by name on page A-11 as a “qualified charitable organization,” so BSA expenses are eligible.

   

  • Five types of contributions can be deducted:
    • Cash/check donations
    • Property donations
    • “Out-of-pocket expenses you paid to do volunteer work”
    • Uniforms for leaders. “Uniforms that aren’t suitable for everyday use and that you wear while performing donated services for a charitable organization are charitable items in the year purchased,” Carr says. “Scout uniforms for leaders qualify.”
    • The cost of driving to and from BSA events

   

  • Some types of relevant contributions cannot be deducted:
    • The value of your time
    • Scouting dues or membership fees
    • A contribution to a specific individual. This includes giving to the BSA and specifying a particular person or Scout as the beneficiary of your donation.

   

  • IRS Publication 526 has lots more info

   

  I guess it all depends on your accountant.

Edited July 7, 2023 by DannyG
link

[scoutldr]

98% of taxpayers no longer itemize.  That may change if the tax policies of the last administration are allowed to expire.  I don't even keep receipts any more...

[mrjohns2]

1 hour ago, scoutldr said:

98% of taxpayers no longer itemize. 

On a federal level. Our stupid state has not harmonized and thus we still need receipts for state deductions. 
 

Obvious to note for other posters - if mileage has been reimbursed, it isn’t deductible. 

[5thGenTexan]

On 7/5/2023 at 9:20 AM, fred8033 said:

Lots of small, friendly conversations over coffee with the SM and CC.  ... AND ... if they don't sign-on, don't subvert their direction.  Perhaps you can help like in the above ideas such as bringing your sewing machine.  Otherwise, the most important point in my view is slowly getting everyone on the same page.

I am the CC and the SM is the one with a Pack Unit number instead of the Troop number because he doesnt care.

[5thGenTexan]

On 7/5/2023 at 11:21 AM, InquisitiveScouter said:

Correct wear of the uniform is a demonstration of leadership and setting the example.  Be, know, do!

Also, you can point out to each Scout who has a Position of Responsibility (PoR) that it is in his basic job description.

https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/training/pdf/510-046_PocketCards17.pdf

That is, if the Scout with a PoR is not "wearing the Scout uniform correctly", then he is not doing his job correctly.

Does a Scout have or want a PoR, and is not wearing the uniform correctly?  Help them set a SMART goal to achieve that standard, and then get them to agree that, in order to receive credit for the position for rank, they must achieve that goal. (Unless there are extenuating circumstances, that is:  "the dog ate my uniform" 😜 )

 

Our SPL thought his job was going to be calling flags at the opening.  He did not realize there were other responsibilities associated with the position.  Because THE ADULTS (SM and ASM)  WONT TRAIN the youth and wont let those of that know and are willing to train.  3 years ago we had 7 Eagles, they went to COH and never came back.  We have no Scouts older than 14 or First Class and its a giant mess that we have.  A Unit can not be youth led if they dont know what to do and the adults arent willing to help show the way.

[5thGenTexan]

On 7/5/2023 at 11:56 AM, skeptic said:

While a good and sharp uniform is an ideal for which to reach, it is NOT a requirment of BSA, and never has been.  It is a tool, and surely should never become a barrier to the program, whether due to financial issues or simply youthful rebellion.  Troops can determine their own uniform standard, but it is only that, and not an absolute.  Example is important, but so is demonstrating that it is the program and its tenets that are foremost.  On the other hand, whatever they do wear, they need to be neat and clean at a minimum unless they are doing something that precludes that.  To ostracize a youth for wearing a soiled uniform, whether what we call class 2, or class 1 should not occur.  When we make the wrong things paramount, we lose part of the purpose and aim.  That is what I have seen in close to sixty years, and I have never forgotten how B.P. III, who I met at the rededication of Mount Baden Powell, said that my rag tag group, in as complete a uniform as we were able to get them in that fit, but there, clean and neat.  He lloked at the groups before him and asked which ones was I connected to.  They were being boys, but not overly so, and they were not disrespectful, but maybe a little rowdy.  Another group was in perfect currrent uniforms and looked as if they were not getting any fun out of being there, even though they could have been a military unit.  When I told B.P. III which were ours, he said his grandfather would likely have felt ours were more scoutlike.  Balance and common sense, always keeping the youth as the focus, but in a positive way.  JMHO as always.  

Our Scouts can not stay still during opening.  They can not keep their mouths shut during openings.  We have not had a proper PLC in two years.  Typically the SM shows up 15 minutes late and the Scouts roam around.  When the SM does show up there is usually no plan and there are a lot of meetings that devolve into playing on the playground.  

Nothing is going particularly well.  Getting everyone in Uniform consistently would be a great start. 

No, it wasnt always like this in the Troop.

[InquisitiveScouter]

17 minutes ago, 5thGenTexan said:

Our Scouts can not stay still during opening.  They can not keep their mouths shut during openings.  We have not had a proper PLC in two years.  Typically the SM shows up 15 minutes late and the Scouts roam around.  When the SM does show up there is usually no plan and there are a lot of meetings that devolve into playing on the playground.  

Nothing is going particularly well.  Getting everyone in Uniform consistently would be a great start. 

No, it wasnt always like this in the Troop.

Get a long thin dinner candle.

Explain the behavior you want... "During the Scout meeting openings, there will be no talking after the SPL or the Scout opening the meeting has held up the Scout sign, and until we finish the Outdoor Code (or you are dismissed to Patrol meetings, or whatever it is that you do to end the opening."  This period should only last for less than say 10 minutes.

Explain that you will light the candle just before each meeting starts, and that you will extinguish it if the rules are broken.

Tell them when the candle burns down (to a pre-marked level), they will get a treat or some other reward.

Incentivize the behavior you want! 

Recommend you try one at home, and time the burn for say, one hour (or however long you think that should last).  Then mark a new candle at that level.  When they burn it down to the mark, reward them.  Then try it for another behavior, or a little longer...

[5thGenTexan]

1 minute ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Get a long thin dinner candle.

Explain the behavior you want... "During the Scout meeting openings, there will be no talking after the SPL or the Scout opening the meeting has held up the Scout sign, and until we finish the Outdoor Code (or you are dismissed to Patrol meetings, or whatever it is that you do to end the opening."  This period should only last for less than say 10 minutes.

Explain that you will light the candle just before each meeting starts, and that you will extinguish it if the rules are broken.

Tell them when the candle burns down (to a pre-marked level), they will get a treat or some other reward.

Incentivize the behavior you want! 

Recommend you try one at home, and time the burn for say, one hour (or however long you think that should last).  Then mark a new candle at that level.  When they burn it down to the mark, reward them.  Then try it for another behavior, or a little longer...

Yeah.. I mentioned in our committee channel in Slack about behavior.  SM told me if thats what I wanted I should leave the Troop and find an ROTC program.  Scouts isnt military.    I have shut up since then, but ready to ramp up.  To the point I dont care if he leaves.