Uniforms "Required"

[5thGenTexan]

I am looking for guidance... I know what the BSA guidelines say.

Uniforms are part of the Aims and Methods.  I know the BSA says uniforms are preferred and encouraged.  I know that a Scout can't be required to wear a uniform to be registered in Scouts.

 

So, how do I approach this with the Committee and other Adult leaders.  I would like our adults, if they are actively working with Scouts at meetings to be in uniform with all the correct insignia.  This is not a uniform police thing...  Our SM, even after two years shows up sometimes in uniform and still has a Pack Unit number on the sleeve instead of the Troop unit number, no position patch at all.  Other leaders have uniforms with lots of things missing if they wear a uniform at all.  It does NOT encourage Scouts to wear their uniform properly.

I am willing to give some time to get things in order.  

I would like beginning Labor Day all leaders wear uniforms to any official Troop event.  It must be worn properly.  If they are serving on a BOR, they need to be in uniform

I would like Scouts to likewise have their uniforms at all events and properly worn. 

I would like, but may not win this one.  Green pants/shorts.  I dont care if they are BSA as long as they dark green.

 

So, how do I go about presenting this without saying its "required"

[SiouxRanger]

In our troop, a number of unit leaders show up direct from work and have not had time to change to a uniform.  Our SM ALWAYS carried a uniform in his truck (Be Prepared) and would change in the parking lot into his shirt.

Almost all leaders and BOR members recognized the importance of being in uniform at a formal event.  Some leaders-generally members of the committee-were present so infrequently that they've "lost the thread" on being in uniform for formal events.

So, "catch more flies with honey."

Spend a few informal minutes with every adult who is likely to be a BOR member.  Mention the importance of "Leading By Example."  (Be in uniform when you broach the topic.).  By these efforts you might get folks into a scout shirt.

Going from a scout shirt to proper insignia, that is a bit more difficult.  Most adults don't seem to give a whit about insignia, unless they have grown up in the program, and even then many don't bother.  The "recruited parents" with no prior program experience don't care about insignia.

I'd just mention it and ignore the results.  The Scouts are highly unlikely to notice and the exceptional Scout that does, will be perceptive enough to recognize that the adult is just not with it.

Pants.  Again, mention it, but ignore the results.  At a BOR table, the Scout sees only the shirt.

The Scout is focused on his/her anxiety about the BOR process and the minutiae of adult leader's uniforms is totally off the radar.

One works with what one has, as imperfect as it is.

[BetterWithCheddar]

If you have volunteers that are helping you deliver a fun and safe program, then I would hesitate to set uniform requirements. Maybe start with a friendly email to all leaders covering proper uniforming and see how much traction you get?  I often mention proper uniforming in my monthly den newsletter, but I note it's strictly on a best efforts basis. If a child is enjoying Scouting, they can add as they go. I want there to be as few barriers as possible for a child to join Cub Scouts.

 

[InquisitiveScouter]

Here're some that have worked for me...

Go the extra mile:  Send out a notice that you will sew on one patch for any Scout or leader who brings their uniform to the meeting.  Bring a sewing machine and your box of sewing notions to a meeting and set up shop.  Hand or machine sew... it doesn't matter.  Offer to teach a Scout how to use the machine or hand sew.  Keep track of who you sew on a patch for.  They get one and only one, and you might help or guide on the rest.

Bring sewing notions on a camping trip!  Same idea...

Incentivize the behavior you want!  We hold a quarterly uniform competition.  The Scout in each Patrol with the best uniform for that Patrol wins a prize (like an ice cream sandwich!!)  Best in Troop wins an overall prize.   Same for Leaders... best wins a prize.  You are automatically not in the running 😜

Keep track of who wins.  At the end of the year, have a special competition for the Scouts who won during the year.  Get a good prize like a new Suunto compass or a 1-liter wide mouth Nalgene water bottle, or some bandages or a good pair of scissors for a First Aid Kit.  Or $50 off Scout camp tuition....  (Never announce what the prize is before you have the competition.)

Have a pizza and movie meeting night.  Price of admission?  A complete Scout uniform.  (Don't worry about insignia for this!)  When you announce this event, a month or so in advance, have a bin of old uniform items handy.  If someone doesn't have something, they can take it from there...

Yes, the uniform is one of the methods.  And if your unit is not wearing uniforms, then you are not fully Scouting.

Edited July 5, 2023 by InquisitiveScouter

[qwazse]

The assumption is flawed that scouts’ uniforming is dependent on adults uniforming.

Growing up, we always looked sharp for our BoR’s, and none of the committee wore a field uniform. Half of our SMs did not wear a uniform, and we still dressed in our field uniform. That’s because we regularly had uniform inspection.

Currently, none of our committee wear uniforms, and our SM and ASMs do most of the time. Most of our scouts show up with the uniform shirt on every week.

If your problem is scouts not looking sharp, then that’s your problem with the scouts, don’t bring the adults into it.

Do your best to wear your uniform regularly. Apologize to the scouts any time you are not in uniform for a meeting or troop activity. And teach the scouts what you and the world expects of them.

If  your problem is that you’d prefer adults to appear looking sharp in field uniforms, tell them that is your personal preference. Thank them when they show up looking sharp. Leave the kids out of it. 

Remind everyone about the most important part of their uniform …

Their Smile.

[Double Eagle]

You are getting a lot of good advice on this topic.  Hopefully I can add to it.  A subtle way for the adults to see the importance may be for their Scouts to set the example.  Focus on them first.  Adult Scouters used to have BSA ties, suits, as well as the field uniform, don't see them much anymore.  Some adults may pay the bill for their Scout (we know sticker shock on uniforms) and just use an activity shirt.  

1.  Do you participate with other units on outings or council collective events?  Do they see other Scouts in uniform, assist as staff on Cub Day Camp, NYLT, etc?  At some staffed summer camps, uniform is required at breakfast and dinner.  Expose them to other uniformed Scouts and it may help.

2.  Is price one reason for not being in uniform?  Uniform exchange or donations may be an option.  Most of the "seasoned" scouters on this forum probably have a stash of old uniforms that shrunk as they got older.  

3.  As mentioned about uniform inspection, start the Scouts doing this weekly with monthly acknowledgement/prize.  As a pre-opening, how about "Pin the patch on the Uniform" game.  I wonder how a court of honor is handled, whether a MB sash is worn over a T-shirt?  If there are OA members, how do they handle uniforms at lodge meetings/events?  

Lastly,

4.  Has the PLC put in place any uniform guidance?  What do they say about neckerchiefs, bolos, or nothing?  During fund raising or recruiting, how about stressing uniforms be worn.  A pack I know does monthly pancake breakfasts at the chartered organization and cubs at least wear the field shirt/neckerchief.  This lets customers know and see it is a Scout event rather than another church group.  

[DannyG]

Leaders set the example. Scouts will follow the leaders. Make sure your SPL and LC are always wearing the proper uniform. Once leadership is onboard, scouts will follow, if reluctantly. Announce to the troop what a proper uniform looks like and continue to remind them the purpose of wearing the uniform. Your ASMs may be easier to convert, especially if they are former scouts. Make sure they are on board and they are wearing the uniform properly. It may require an adult leader meeting to discuss uniform protocol, what patches they should be wearing and where they are placed, etc.

We have a similar policy in place for pants. Any sort of green cargo short/pants are acceptable. Athletic shorts and sweatpants are not. Scouts should be in full uniform for BOR, and emphasize this to your committee. Uniform inspection is part of the board. We have postponed a BOR if a scout shows up missing a key piece of uniform (ie. athletic shorts are unacceptable, whereas we'll let them go if they aren't wearing the proper socks). Be more lenient with your Tenderfoot scouts than your Star/Life/Eagle BOR.  "We'll let you go for Tenderfoot board tonight, but next time be sure to wear your neckerchief."

Don't say uniform is mandatory, or set a deadline for compliance. Set a standard and stick to it. Continue to set the example and be persistent what uniform is required.

[fred8033]

17 hours ago, 5thGenTexan said:

So, how do I approach this with the Committee and other Adult leaders. ....

Lots of small, friendly conversations over coffee with the SM and CC.  ... AND ... if they don't sign-on, don't subvert their direction.  Perhaps you can help like in the above ideas such as bringing your sewing machine.  Otherwise, the most important point in my view is slowly getting everyone on the same page.

[Eagledad]

I believe that the scout program is separate from the adult program of supporting the scouts. That being said, the scouts have been raised to respect the adults as their guardians since they were born. For most scouts, the troop is their first experience to true independence of making decisions that effect their experience in the immediate environment, and the experience of others in the immediate environment.  In fact, it is a perception that interrupts the intentions of the patrol method and is hard to elevate from the program. Scouts DO watch the adults and note hypocrisy. Hypocrisy does dim the effectiveness of adult mentoring, coaching and teaching. At the very least if lessens the adult integrity.

So, if the unit wants the scouts to truly trust that the adults will give them free reign to run the youth part of the program and make their own decisions, they need some effort from the adults that are taking the program seriously. Adults can't help themselves and will have many expectations of the scouts even though they shouldn't. As I said, we can help ourselves.

I know adults differ a lot on the strength of uniforming for growth in moral values. I personally believe uniforming is very powerful in the ability of giving scouts individuality, leadership practice, team pride, group acceptance, and practice of making right or wrong decisions. I also found that the uniform is a great indicator of the scout mood or temperament, especially when home life isn't going well or they are being bullied.

That is the back ground; So, at the very least, the Scoutmaster needs set the example of how to dress. Most adults don't realize how much youth look at the top leader as the role model of behavior and vision. I personally believe the ASMs should dress as the scoutmaster, not the scouts or the book or whatever. The Scoutmaster sets the tone of behavior for all the troop in behavior and moral obedience. That is not a directive, but more of a natural humanistic response. Not that the adults will follow dress identical to the scoutmaster, but they will notice the tone. And the scouts will notice the SM Corp. And, it is very important for the SM to understand that the SM handbook does have uniforming guidelines.

Our troop recruits parents for the BOR and most are not registered leaders. So, I have no trouble with non uniformed board members, but that is personal to our troop. Scouts understand the difference between the SM Corp and all the other adults.

I don't believe in hounding scouts to dress like the SM. I do believe in teaching the PLC that the scout handbook gives each scout uniform recommendations. They are leaders and leaders the scout handbook is an important guide to how scouts should perform and behave in the troop. And I let them control, or not, how their scouts dress. This is a scout run program after all. I find that most true scout run troops are typically less uniformed that adult led troops. But, they have more mature youth leaders. Youth leaders will typically take uniform seriously, but they don't hound their scouts. Uniforming seems to be a good indicator of maturity. Older scouts typical dress very well (like the SM) most of the time. 

I know this is a long way of saying that the adults should have some guidelines to uniforming, and it should start with the SM. But, don't make uniform a pride thing. Uniform has a purpose and if method is used correctly, scouts and adults will wear the uniform to show their pride of being a Scout or scouter in your troop. Pride of the troop can't be force, it has to be developed over time.

Barry

 

[InquisitiveScouter]

1 hour ago, Eagledad said:

I don't believe in hounding scouts to dress like the SM. I do believe in teaching the PLC that the scout handbook gives each scout uniform recommendations. They are leaders and leaders the scout handbook is an important guide to how scouts should perform and behave in the troop. And I let them control, or not, how their scouts dress. This is a scout run program after all. I find that most true scout run troops are typically less uniformed that adult led troops. But, they have more mature youth leaders. Youth leaders will typically take uniform seriously, but they don't hound their scouts. Uniforming seems to be a good indicator of maturity. Older scouts typical dress very well (like the SM) most of the time. 

I know this is a long way of saying that the adults should have some guidelines to uniforming, and it should start with the SM. But, don't make uniform a pride thing. Uniform has a purpose and if method is used correctly, scouts and adults will wear the uniform to show their pride of being a Scout or scouter in your troop. Pride of the troop can't be force, it has to be developed over time.

Correct wear of the uniform is a demonstration of leadership and setting the example.  Be, know, do!

Also, you can point out to each Scout who has a Position of Responsibility (PoR) that it is in his basic job description.

https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/training/pdf/510-046_PocketCards17.pdf

That is, if the Scout with a PoR is not "wearing the Scout uniform correctly", then he is not doing his job correctly.

Does a Scout have or want a PoR, and is not wearing the uniform correctly?  Help them set a SMART goal to achieve that standard, and then get them to agree that, in order to receive credit for the position for rank, they must achieve that goal. (Unless there are extenuating circumstances, that is:  "the dog ate my uniform" 😜 )

 

[MikeS72]

2 hours ago, DannyG said:

Leaders set the example

Agree 100% with this.  Scouts do notice properly uniformed leaders, both youth and adult.

 

2 hours ago, DannyG said:

Scouts should be in full uniform for BOR, and emphasize this to your committee. Uniform inspection is part of the board. We have postponed a BOR if a scout shows up missing a key piece of uniform (ie. athletic shorts are unacceptable, whereas we'll let them go if they aren't wearing the proper socks). Be more lenient with your Tenderfoot scouts than your Star/Life/Eagle BOR.  "We'll let you go for Tenderfoot board tonight, but next time be sure to wear your neckerchief."

While I was a scout in the early 60's, when we would never dream of being out of uniform, I have to say that over the years I have mellowed quite a bit when it comes to "complete uniform".   Our C.C. suggested several years ago that we "require" scouts to wear the complete uniform to all meetings.  Kind of fell through the cracks, considering that the C.C.'s scout was rarely in a "complete uniform".

I had an Assistant Cubmaster question me (as the U.C.) at his pack Pinewood Derby about wanting to prevent several scouts who were not in uniform from participating.  Response was very much to the point:  not everyone can afford to buy a complete uniform, and not every pack/troop with a uniform exchange will have something to fit everyone who might be in those circumstances.  No scout will every be denied ANY scout activity, BoR included, because they are not in uniform.

2 hours ago, DannyG said:

Don't say uniform is mandatory, or set a deadline for compliance. Set a standard and stick to it. Continue to set the example and be persistent what uniform is required.

Hard to not say the uniform is mandatory while refusing to grant a BoR or while being "persistent what uniform is required".

 

I will point out to one of my scouts what should or should not be worn on the uniform and where the correct places for said items to be worn.  I will bite my tongue with scouts / leaders from other units, unless I know them well enough that it doesn't make the feel attacked.  While the uniform (properly worn) is one of the methods of scouting, the method falls by the wayside if we run them off due to lack of said clothing.

[InquisitiveScouter]

We have a robust uniform bank, including gently used socks and belts.

"We cannot afford a uniform" is, therefore, not sufficient reason for a Scout to be out of uniform.

If you are going to set a requirement, then help provide the means or opportunity to attain that requirement.

Want all new uniform bits, but cannot afford it?  I have loads of yard work for the Scout to do...  

A Scout is Thrifty:

"A Scout works to pay her own way and to help others. She saves for the future. She protects and conserves natural resources. She carefully uses time and property."

Correctly wearing a uniform is an extenuation of "A Scout is Thrifty."

Edited July 5, 2023 by InquisitiveScouter

[skeptic]

While a good and sharp uniform is an ideal for which to reach, it is NOT a requirment of BSA, and never has been.  It is a tool, and surely should never become a barrier to the program, whether due to financial issues or simply youthful rebellion.  Troops can determine their own uniform standard, but it is only that, and not an absolute.  Example is important, but so is demonstrating that it is the program and its tenets that are foremost.  On the other hand, whatever they do wear, they need to be neat and clean at a minimum unless they are doing something that precludes that.  To ostracize a youth for wearing a soiled uniform, whether what we call class 2, or class 1 should not occur.  When we make the wrong things paramount, we lose part of the purpose and aim.  That is what I have seen in close to sixty years, and I have never forgotten how B.P. III, who I met at the rededication of Mount Baden Powell, said that my rag tag group, in as complete a uniform as we were able to get them in that fit, but there, clean and neat.  He lloked at the groups before him and asked which ones was I connected to.  They were being boys, but not overly so, and they were not disrespectful, but maybe a little rowdy.  Another group was in perfect currrent uniforms and looked as if they were not getting any fun out of being there, even though they could have been a military unit.  When I told B.P. III which were ours, he said his grandfather would likely have felt ours were more scoutlike.  Balance and common sense, always keeping the youth as the focus, but in a positive way.  JMHO as always.  

[qwazse]

I sincerely believe that historically, the causality has been the opposite of depicted. As some troops in the ‘80s and ‘90s took uniforming less seriously, more adults were encouraged to wear a field uniform “as an example” to scouts. This was an attempt to get adults to communicate “I’m willing to wear this proudly, you should be willing too!”

Like every social experiment, there are successes and failures. I’m not sure how much one vs. the other occurred. There’s no real poll of the amount of uniforming one way or the other … only anecdotes from scouters when they don’t like how their people are using (or not using) the method.

Edited July 5, 2023 by qwazse

[DannyG]

21 hours ago, MikeS72 said:

Hard to not say the uniform is mandatory while refusing to grant a BoR or while being "persistent what uniform is required".

BOR is never denied. It is postponed until the scout is fully prepared.