Bugling MB | Allowed instruments

[JesseMills]

So...yes I know this is the least popular MB and yet I signed up to counsel it anyhow!  Maybe I can help move that needle...though I'm learning that many local units don't have buglers.

To help remedy that, one ASM approached me at an event and said his scout is interested in it, but they play only guitar.

I'm an experienced professional trumpet player, church choir director, and band director (music ed was my college focus).  When I read "similar instrument" on the MB requirements, my take is that includes: trumpet, cornet, flugelhorn (all Bb or C instruments with the same general shape as a bugle).  I'd probably consider trombone, mellophone, F horn, and euphonium in a pinch but I'd rather get a scout who plays those onto a bugle/trumpet if possible.

I'm curious if anybody else has either done the badge with a non-bugle/trumpet or has a troop bugler who doesn't play bugle and how that works.  I'm down to teach the instrument from scratch (especially if it helps the scout get a Star & Life qualifying leadership role), but want to be sure I'm exploring all the angles.

[Momleader]

My oldest worked on this with  marching euphonium - sounded great and didn’t mess up his embrochure (as 1st chair in his HS band that was his biggest concern) since he worked on the mb just as he prepped for all state band competition 

[ToKindle96]

I don't see similar instruments as an option. I see bugle, trumpet, or cornet. Does the word "may" imply "must" given the options presented? 

[skeptic]

While it would be interesting to hear some other brass instruments doing the calls, I feel it leans towards the three or four noted, with an actual bugle being number one.  I know that our bugler can do miracles with his lips on the bugle, sounding better than someone using a valved instrument.  At our camp they have done taps with bugle, trumpet, and trombone together in echoed harmonies.  Haunting, but the pure bugle sound is still the best for me.  Have also heard a guy with a bagpipe do taps; interesting sound.  

 

[JesseMills]

Ah yes, good catch...I was getting it mixed up with the position description for Bugler that says "The bugler plays the bugle (or similar instrument)"

[JesseMills]

2 hours ago, skeptic said:

While it would be interesting to hear some other brass instruments doing the calls, I feel it leans towards the three or four noted, with an actual bugle being number one.  I know that our bugler can do miracles with his lips on the bugle, sounding better than someone using a valved instrument.  At our camp they have done taps with bugle, trumpet, and trombone together in echoed harmonies.  Haunting, but the pure bugle sound is still the best for me.  Have also heard a guy with a bagpipe do taps; interesting sound.  

 

Oh I'm definitely a fan of "play on the intended instrument."  I've seen school bands playing my pieces swap in a trombone for a euphonium and it definitely changes the character!

[InquisitiveScouter]

I have counseled this for a few Scouts.  One was a trombone player.  As he already had experience playing, he was easily able to adopt his embouchure to the different mouthpiece.

Bugle (field trumpet), trumpet, or cornet, as the MB pamphlet says... but not trombone or guitar 😜 

From the requirements: "*NOTE: A bugle, trumpet, or cornet may be used to meet these requirements."

[RememberSchiff]

So no kazoo?

Junior Buglers Kazoo Call to Post

 

[SSScout]

Troop , camp, WB, IOLS bugler....   Bugling MBC.  I have  heard , okayed many a brass instrument. The embrouchure from trombone to bugle is easy.  I did it.  

I am called to offer the BMB many times, sometimes some distance Away.  I am no longer amazed at the attitude of some Scouts (or their parents?) about "doing" a MB.  I once had two brothers arrive with two "cavalry" bugles (the small , one loop bugle) still in the plastic wrap. Had they even tried to make a noise with them? no.  We played with these for an hour, I got them to make noise, explained and demonstrated with my horn. These were perhaps the wrong instrument for Bugling MB, but it is possible for the practiced lip, not apparent THIS time....  Eventually sent them off with all my contact info,  they never called back..

Many times, Scouts will show up with a cornet or trumpet from the school band, but can't do the five or six notes on the Bugle scale. . How do they play in the band?  Did they have any lessons? Chagrin abounds.....    I sometimes think this is the result of the "Show Up And Pass " expectations....

AND THEN....  a Scout will show up, and they are the next Wynton Marsalis.   Or , as with one Scout , and his attentive dad in the background,  BY ZOOM (!!), that came to me four times, improving greatly each time, and I was proud to sign, scan, and email his card to him....

Keep on keeping on.   What's that old joke about "How do you get to Carnegie Hall" ? 

Edited July 1, 2023 by SSScout

[swilliams]

5 minutes ago, SSScout said:

Troop , camp, WB, IOLS bugler....   Bugling MBC.  I have  heard , okayed many a brass instrument. The embrouchure from trombone to bugle is easy.  I did it.  

I am called to offer the BMB many times, sometimes some distance Away.  I am no longer amazed at the attitude of some Scouts (or their parents?) about "doing" a MB.  I once had two brothers arrive with two "cavalry" bugles (the small , one loop bugle) still in the plastic wrap. Had they even tried to make a noise with them? no.  We played with these for an hour, I got them to make noise, explained and demonstrated with my horn. These were perhaps the wrong instrument for Bugling MB, but it i spossible for the practiced lip, not apparent THIS time....  Eventually sent them off with all my contact info,  they never called back..

Many times, Scouts will show up with a cornet or trumpet from the school band, but can't do the five or six notes on the Bugle scale. . How do they play in the band?  Did they have any lessons? Chagrin abounds.....    I sometimes think this is the result of the "Show Up And Pass " expectations....

AND THEN....  a Scout will show up, and they are the next Wynton Marsalis.   Or , as with one Scout , and his attentive dad in the background,  BY ZOOM (!!), that came to me four times, improving greatly each time, and I was proud to sign, scan, and email his card to him....

Keep on keeping on.   What's that old joke about "How do you get to Carnegie Hall" ? 

Thanks again for your help when my son was working on this.  (And for the nickname Bugleson, lol.)  He was a trombone player who was able to get many of the notes on trumpet right away.  It did take Bugleson six months to do this MB.  The high G took a LOT of practice, as did the low C.  His MBC asked him to play an actual bugle (but didn't require it), so we ended up purchasing a used trumpet for practice, then borrowing a bugle for a couple weeks to finish up.   We met with the MBC a total of three times before he was satisfied and signed off.

I made Bugleson play 'To the Colors' at a camporee, and he was Troop Bugler for a six-month period, where he would start the meetings.  Sadly, he never played again after that.  All that work...

Younger son plays baritone for concert band and marching band.  It would be fun to have him try the calls, just to see 1) his range and 2) what the calls sound like on the low brass.  I might go start pestering him right now.

[skeptic]

It is sad that so few keep at it.  Of particular significance, from what I have read/heard, there is a serious desire of Veteran Funeral groups to have real buglers for burials.  While recorded is nice, the presence in a sharp uniform of the actual bugler, standing straight like a Rockwell image does a lot for ceremony and memories.  At least that is how it is for me.  Our troop bugler just graduated, and he may soon join the service.  But he has always enjoyed that special stance of a bugle to lips while standing tall.  

[JesseMills]

6 minutes ago, swilliams said:

Thanks again for your help when my son was working on this.  (And for the nickname Bugleson, lol.)  He was a trombone player who was able to get many of the notes on trumpet right away.  It did take Bugleson six months to do this MB.  The high G took a LOT of practice, as did the low C.  His MBC asked him to play an actual bugle (but didn't require it), so we ended up purchasing a used trumpet for practice, then borrowing a bugle for a couple weeks to finish up.   We met with the MBC a total of three times before he was satisfied and signed off.

I made Bugleson play 'To the Colors' at a camporee, and he was Troop Bugler for a six-month period, where he would start the meetings.  Sadly, he never played again after that.  All that work...

Younger son plays baritone for concert band and marching band.  It would be fun to have him try the calls, just to see 1) his range and 2) what the calls sound like on the low brass.  I might go start pestering him right now.

All this trombone talk is making me eye the closet containing the trombone...

I've never done a call on the trombone, but I have written bugle calls into my orchestra music and had horns & trombones provide added harmony

[SSScout]

22 minutes ago, swilliams said:

12 minutes ago, JesseMills said:

.  His MBC asked him to play an actual bugle (but didn't require it), so we ended up purchasing a used trumpet for practice, then borrowing a bugle for a couple weeks to finish up.   We met with the MBC a total of three times before he was satisfied and signed off.

 

This is the key.   It should never be "just good enough"  I

I think Yoda would make a good MBC.... 

 

[DannyG]

I echo the comments in here. It is really intended for a bugle, or a trumpet or cornet playing open notes. I would not allow a trombone, tuba, French horn, or even a mellophone because they would be playing out of key. If the scout has experience playing any brass instrument it will be easy to switch. I am also lucky the troop has a bugle to lend out, and I know of a scout or two over the years that can lend one out too.