Chain of command in boy scouts' leadership position (Scouts Leadership hierarchy)

[ChanL]

Hi,

I have a question to ask regarding the chain of command in boy scouts.

In this Summer Camp, we have two scouts want to be SPL of this Summer Camp. The current SPL didn't join Summer Camp.

Scout_A: 15-years-old, been with Troop for 4 years, "Life" Rank, finished all Eagle requirements and scheduled Eagle BOR in next two weeks, finished NYLT, and served NYLT as staff. Current position = Troop Guide

Scout_B: 13-years-old, been with Troop for 2 years. "Star" Rank, hasn't been to NYLT, but current position = Assistant Senor Patrol Leader.

I found this from BSA's web site https://troopleader.scouting.org/troop-positions/

It's talking about the difference between Large Troop, and Small Troop.

My question is, should Scout_B be the SPL of this Summer Camp, or the Scout_A? Is there a Scouts Leadership hierarchy that stated ASPL is higher than Troop Guide or vice versa?

 

YIS,

Chan

[RememberSchiff]

@ChanL  Timely question welcome to scouter.com

[ChanL]

Hi,

I have a question to ask regarding the chain of command in boy scouts.

In this Summer Camp, we have two scouts want to be SPL of this Summer Camp. The current SPL didn't join Summer Camp.

Scout_A: 15-years-old, been with Troop for 4 years, "Life" Rank, finished all Eagle requirements and scheduled Eagle BOR in next two weeks, finished NYLT, and served NYLT as staff. Current position = Troop Guide

Scout_B: 13-years-old, been with Troop for 2 years. "Star" Rank, hasn't been to NYLT, but current position = Assistant Senor Patrol Leader.

I found this from BSA's web site https://troopleader.scouting.org/troop-positions/

It's talking about the difference between Large Troop, and Small Troop.

My question is, should Scout_B be the SPL of this Summer Camp, or the Scout_A? Is there a Scouts Leadership hierarchy that stated ASPL is higher than Troop Guide or vice versa?

 

YIS,

Chan

[DuctTape]

If it were me, I would defer the decision to the PLC to make the determination as to who should be the SPL at camp. IMO when it comes to hierarchy, the PL is the highest and the SPL and all other troop positions exist to serve the patrols thus the PLC should make the decision.

[ChanL]

The PL prefer Scout_A, but ScoutMaster think it should be Scout_B. I just want to know if there's any proper guideline to follow.

[fred8033]

ASPL functions as SPL when SPL is absent.
https://troopleader.scouting.org/assistant-senior-patrol-leader/

FYI ... This also respects the scout's choices.  The scouts elected the SPL.  The SPL selects his ASPL(s).  The SPL knew the ASPL was to fill in when needed.  The Troop Guide was assigned to help new scouts, not to fill in for the SPL.  ... So, ASPL respects the scouts' choices.

IMHO, perhaps have the Troop Guide support and mentor the ASPL.  That is the job of a troop guide.

Edited June 19, 2023 by fred8033

[Double Eagle]

I'm leaning on the ASPL taking over duties for the SPL.  Scout A could probably do a fine job.  NYLT is not a requirement to lead, hopefully the troop had a recent ILST for their Scout leaders at a minimum.  Scout A has an Eagle BOR scheduled.  If Scout A is going to camp...what are they doing? 

Scout B will get more out of the temporary position and shows reinforcing the chain of command.  Scout B, if not used, may just back off duties as ASPL if not used.  Camps will mainly only work with the SM and SPL mainly for communication/duties etc.  Scout B will get more out of the experience.  If there are additional areas that need attention, how about Scout A support by being troop ASPL at camp?  

[Eagledad]

Look at it from the perspective of growth from the position. Who will grow more from the positions.

From my experience, 14 is the minimum age, and really 15, for scouts to have the maturity to grow from true leadership. Puberty is a good indicator. Which is why our senior leaders (including troop guides) were usually 15 and older.

I understand if your troop doesn’t have enough older scouts for an older scout PLC. I was mentioning the ideal situation.

You need to determine if the maturity of your scouts are ready to take on and learn from the responsibilities of their positions, but in the little bit of information you’ve given, I agree that your 15 year old should at the very least be a mentor for the 13 year old. Unless your 13 year old is unusually mature, which happens sometimes.

One other suggestion to consider once you get this sorted out is an approach I’ve seen with a couple of troops that elect their ASPL instead of the SPL with the idea that they will replace the SPL in 6 months or a year. I’ve seen both. Then what you have is an experience SPL mentoring the ASPL to get ready for leading the troop in the future. But, that idea is down the road until you get the situation settled.

Good luck and don’t be afraid to ask more questions.

Barry

[ChanL]

To answer your question, Scout_A consider this is his last Summer Camp with Troop since he's almost Eagle and wish to make this summer camp a meaningful memory.

[Better4itall]

2 hours ago, DuctTape said:

If it were me, I would defer the decision to the PLC to make the determination as to who should be the SPL at camp. IMO when it comes to hierarchy, the PL is the highest and the SPL and all other troop positions exist to serve the patrols thus the PLC should make the decision.

This - Scouting is boy-led, or youth-led, so put the decision to them. Remember, as the SPL's advisor you have a lot of influence. Some of the most surprising SPL's I've seen in our troop have been the ones that I thought "oh no!" when they were elected.  And remember, it's a week.

[ChanL]

Scout_A consider this is his last Summer Camp with Troop since he's almost Eagle and wish to make this summer camp a meaningful memory. However, if I understand correctly, ASPL should take SPL position when SPL is absent, regardless of his age, rank, experiences.

[Jameson76]

You could have the older Scout serve as a JASM to guide the younger scout as the SPL for camp.  Then the leaders in camp will never have to get out of their chair to deal with anything

Edited June 19, 2023 by Jameson76

[InquisitiveScouter]

ASPL fulfills SPL duties when SPL is not present.

Troop Guide does not...

[HashTagScouts]

2 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

ASPL fulfills SPL duties when SPL is not present.

Troop Guide does not...

This. The ASPL is chosen by the SPL to be their stand-in when they are not available.

Assistant Senior Patrol Leader (ASPL)
Job Description: 
The Assistant Senior Patrol Leader is the second highest-ranking junior leader in the Troop. He/She is appointed by the Senior Patrol Leader with the approval of the Scoutmaster. The Assistant Senior Patrol Leader acts as the Senior Patrol Leader in the absence of the Senior Patrol Leader or when called upon. He/She also provides leadership to other junior leaders in the Troop. 
Reports to: Senior Patrol Leader

[swilliams]

17 hours ago, Jameson76 said:

You could have the older Scout serve as a JASM to guide the younger scout as the SPL for camp.  Then the leaders in camp will never have to get out of their chair to deal with anything

I like this solution.  As a side note, our troop has several ASPL positions: logistics (planning for camping trips), advancement, service and program (take over for SPL when unavailable and support SPL with weekly meetings).