1960s Cub Scout Timeline Help

[Chgodon]

I was in the boys scouts around 1968 in Chicago. I have a few photos. My mother wrote on the photos that I was about 7 or 8 years old. I believe I was a Bear according to the advancement levels & neckerchief slider. However, I have a photo dated 1972 which would have made me 11 yrs old. Too old for a bear. Is there anybody who could view my photos to confirm if my uniform was a bear or wolf? Maybe by the color of neckerchief? Also the council patch appears to say Chicago and the unit patch seems to have a 74 or 84, which does not appear to be an updated unit. Is there anybody with a great knowledge of boys scout history ? Trying to complete a life timeline. I believe the uniform has changed since then, so its not showing up in 2023 pictures. 

[MattR]

Welcome to the forum, @Chgodon .

Go ahead and post a picture, if you don't mind. There are plenty of people here that were in scouts when you were.

[Chgodon]

Looking at some old school photos, I'm thinking I was about 8 yrs old in 3rd grade in these photos. The photo

of my mother (den mother) and I is stamped 1972. Can you be a Bear at 11 yrs old? I assume if you  "enter" into

the Cub Scouts at 11 yrs old, you would be a Weblo. I used a magnifying glass and my neckerchief slider looks like

a Bear even though the Bear & Wolf look identical. Hope this info and photos help. Also can't figure out the unit patch

number due to the angle.  Appreciate any help from Cub Scout historians. 

[HashTagScouts]

I was a Cub Scout a few years after you, but my brother is a few years older than I. I don't recall ever having different slides per rank like they do now- everyone wore the gold necker with the same slide until Webelos (and that is a wolf image on the necker slide, just as it is on the the gold necker and hat). Third grade would have been Bear then as it is now. At age 11, you may have been a Webelos (Webelos is both the singular and the plural BTW) if you had not yet finished 5th grade .  In that time period, Webelos still wore the blue Cub Scout uniform and not the Boy Scout uniform as is the typical today. 

[Chgodon]

Thanks you're giving something to work with. 

1. I used a magnifying glass on first photo. Some Bear & Wolf nose and ears photos look extremely similar online. So you're saying my slide is a "wolf?" I can not see it on the gold necker. 

2. So my uniform would have been the same for Wolf, Bear & Webelos in the 1960's? 

3. My birthday is 2/1/1961. I have a 2rd grade photo dated 10/23/1968. I would have turned 7 yrs old. I would have graduated from 2nd grade in May 1969, which I would have turned 8 yrs old. The photo with my mom is dated 5/1972, which means I would have turned 11 yrs old and just graduated 5h grade in May 1972. I think I read that Wolf is for current 2nd grade or 7 yrs old. Bear is for current 3rd grade or 8 yrs old. Not sure if that's correct.

4. My main mission is to confirm if those photos are Wolf or Bear, so I can re-collect the correct handbook and pieces.

5. Those numbers on left patch in photo 2 are confusing. I wish I had better straight on photos. You don't think of it in those years. lol

Edited June 9, 2023 by Chgodon

[slocumscout]

If I were a betting man, I'd say the unit numbers are most likely 34, with 84 as a slim second possibility. That first number has two "lobes", and the top lobe is rounded. If you look at unit number patches from that era, you'll see that the '3' has just a small indent between top and bottom lobes, and the '8' goes much deeper. Your photo shows a small indent. What I can't tell from the pictures is if there's a third digit to the number (where they are relative to the community strip makes me think there could be, but I really can't tell for sure.) 

Cub Scout uniforms didn't differentiate between Wolf, Bear, and Webelos in that time frame (I was a Cub in the 1970s, and that was still true then.) Webelos did have a different (plaid) neckerchief and slide when I was a Webelos, but I don't remember if that was true in the late '60s, and my copies of Mitch Reis' books on dating Scouting uniforms are on loan to a friend right now. 

[Chgodon]

Thanks for your input. Would unit numbers have been 2 digits or 3 digits? Maybe I can find a pack list throughout the years. I lived in Oak Lawn IL and stayed at my Grandparent's house a lot near Midway Airport on the Southwest side of Chicago.

UPDATE: I found a current online pack list for kids to join based on zip codes. It lists 3 locations based on my Oak Lawn zip code. Unit 3481 in Burbank (5 mins from Oak Lawn), Unit 3465 in Chicago (30 mins from Oak Lawn) and Unit 8475 in Chicago (20 mins from Oak Lawn). I was wondering if the word Chicago on my patch could be Chicago Ridge which is 5 mins from Oak Lawn. Chicago Ridge current Unit is 3665.

 

Edited June 9, 2023 by Chgodon

[scoutldr]

I was a Cub in the same era...64-66.  We were all in the same Den and uniforms were the same until we got to Webelos, then a new den with a male leader.  There was only one Cub uniform for all...same cap, same slide, same necker...it wasn't until recently that BSA decided that forcing everyone to purchase new uniform parts every year would be a good ideaI.  We worked on our ranks at home...with our parents.  The Den Mother just recorded the progress.  In the den meetings, at the Den Mother's home right after school, we mainly worked on crafts and the occasional field trip.  In the Webelos den, we started our transition to Scouts, but still no camping.  The den number was replaced with a large blue "W" on a yellow diamond patch.  There was typically only one Web den.  Your first campout was reserved for real Boy Scouts and it was an adventure looked forward to with great anticipation...or trepidation.  I love the mid-century modern furnishings...MSM is highly collectible now!  I can almost smell the stale cigarette odor!  Good times.

PS:  I have seen unit numbers anywhere from 1 to 4 digits.  Depended on how your Council assigned them.  In a small town, Pack 1 and Troop 1 would not have been unusual.  I was in Pack 360.  I think the official "national" unit designation was 4 digits, as I have seen my own Troop 99 listed as "3099" on official charter and paperwork.

[DuctTape]

It also appears the unit number might have a 3rd digit? As it would likely have been centered under the council patch, and the 4 appears to be in the middle.

[HashTagScouts]

8 hours ago, Chgodon said:

Thanks you're giving something to work with. 

1. I used a magnifying glass on first photo. Some Bear & Wolf nose and ears photos look extremely similar online. So you're saying my slide is a "wolf?" I can not see it on the gold necker. 

2. So my uniform would have been the same for Wolf, Bear & Webelos in the 1960's? 

3. My birthday is 2/1/1961. I have a 2rd grade photo dated 10/23/1968. I would have turned 7 yrs old. I would have graduated from 2nd grade in May 1969, which I would have turned 8 yrs old. The photo with my mom is dated 5/1972, which means I would have turned 11 yrs old and just graduated 5h grade in May 1972. I think I read that Wolf is for current 2nd grade or 7 yrs old. Bear is for current 3rd grade or 8 yrs old. Not sure if that's correct.

4. My main mission is to confirm if those photos are Wolf or Bear, so I can re-collect the correct handbook and pieces.

5. Those numbers on left patch in photo 2 are confusing. I wish I had better straight on photos. You don't think of it in those years. lol

2nd grade would have been Wolf

3rd grade would have been Bear

 

There was no Tiger program (1st grade) back at that point. Yes, it would have been blue uniform throughout your time in the Cub Scout program. You can find the slide at a Scout Shop today, and there are plenty of the vintage ones still around for sale. Most of us went through a few of them during our time in Cubs, as they flew off fairly easy as we chased each other around.  

[Chgodon]

So far, I've studied everybody's replies and done more research online. So here is what I've put together so far as a timeline. It appears that my uniform has defiantly been confirmed to be a Wolf (yellow neckerchief). So I decided to join the Cub Scouts in 2nd grade (1968 to 1969) in order to start out as a Wolf. Unfortunately, the above 2 individual shots of me are not date stamped. The one with my mother is date stamped 1972. I noticed I did not have the red Wolf rank patch on my uniform in that photo. Either it wasn't sewn on or it took me from 1969 to 1972 to earn that red Wolf patch as shown in the middle photo. Wow, it took  3 years to complete my Wolf rank. Seems like a long time? I guess I never completed the Bear rank as I do not have any photos of the Bear rank patch on my uniform. 

I'm currently following some leads on the unit number patch. I'll keep  everybody posted.

[Wëlënakwsu]

I love a good puzzle.  If it helps…

Back then the earliest you could have joined the Cubs was your 8^th birthday (Feb 1969) or the start of 3^rd grade in 1969.

Source:  https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth331783/m1/15/?q=cub scouts

The photos were taken on different dates and to my eye the boy (you) in the photo with his Den Mother (your Mom) looks younger than the boys in the other two photos.  There is no rank patch in the photo with your Mom, which would indicate the picture was taken soon after you joined the Cub Scouts

Assuming 5/1972 is the printing date; perhaps the photo was printed later then actually taken?

The only indication of rank is the 2^nd photo which includes the top corner of a rank insignia.  At a minimum it’s Wolf, but a second diamond would have to be visible to confirm Bear. 

1967-1971 source:    https://www.sageventure.com/history/cub/diamonds.html

[Chgodon]

WAIAnakwsu: THANK YOU for your perspective. You're right. It would make sense a photo was taken of me and my mother because it was a new thing. That photo was taken at my Grandparents house, so that would be the novelty of just joining the Scouts. I was worried it took me 3 years to earn my Wolf diamond, but I could be mischievous at times. I think that's why my mother joined me into Scouts. lol You're also right, I do kinda look slightly younger in that photo, even though those photos are about a year apart. That makes sense that the date stamp is when the photo was printed and not when it was taken. It was the norm back then to allow film to be left in the camera for months if not years. Thanks for shedding light on that memory. 

The vintage boys scout link was fantastic. So I could confirm my Wolf rank goal was started with the Cub Scout Wolf 1969 Handbook? 

[Chgodon]

WAIAnakwsu: Here is my confirmed 2nd grade photo for comparison. I would have been 7 yrs old.

[Eagle94-A1]

19 hours ago, Chgodon said:

Looking at some old school photos, I'm thinking I was about 8 yrs old in 3rd grade in these photos. The photo

of my mother (den mother) and I is stamped 1972. Can you be a Bear at 11 yrs old? I assume if you  "enter" into

the Cub Scouts at 11 yrs old, you would be a Weblo. I used a magnifying glass and my neckerchief slider looks like

a Bear even though the Bear & Wolf look identical. Hope this info and photos help. Also can't figure out the unit patch

number due to the angle.  Appreciate any help from Cub Scout historians. 

 

11 Would be a Boy Scout in 1972, not a Cub Scout of any type. 3rd Grade at that time would be Wolf. And up until  circa 1990s Wolves and Bear wore the same slide. I do not know when in the 1970s different color neckers came out, but by 1982, Yellow necker for Wolf and light blue necker for Bear. Webelos had a plaid necker.

 

16 hours ago, HashTagScouts said:

  In that time period, Webelos still wore the blue Cub Scout uniform and not the Boy Scout uniform as is the typical today. 

August 1984 was when the option to bear the tan and green Boy Scout uniform, with Cub Scout modifications was first allowed. And you had a choice in the matter. Reason for the option as stated at the time was to save families money. If the blue uniform still fit, you could wear it. If it didn't, you went ahead and got the one you would need when you crossed over in a few months.

 

14 hours ago, Chgodon said:

3. My birthday is 2/1/1961. I have a 2rd grade photo dated 10/23/1968. I would have turned 7 yrs old. I would have graduated from 2nd grade in May 1969, which I would have turned 8 yrs old. The photo with my mom is dated 5/1972, which means I would have turned 11 yrs old and just graduated 5h grade in May 1972. I think I read that Wolf is for current 2nd grade or 7 yrs old. Bear is for current 3rd grade or 8 yrs old. Not sure if that's correct.

Prior to August 1989, 3rd grade was Wolf, 4th Grade Bear, and 5th Grade Webelos. August 1982 was when Tiger Cubs came about as a national program for 2nd Graders and was AFFILAITED (emphasis) with Cub Packs. There were Tiger Cub Test groups prior to 1982, and a Tige Cub Groups was not required as it was considered a separate program from Cub Scouts. They even had their own separate Veteran Pin background, orange, and at first a "Tiger Cub Graduate" temp insignia, after completing the program. When Tiger Cubs was officially incorporated into the Cub Scout Program, circa 1989, the square patch was dropped, and the Tiger Cub strip was created. They got their own rank patch in the 2000s.

 

6 hours ago, HashTagScouts said:

2nd grade would have been Wolf

3rd grade would have been Bear

Incorrect. 1989 was when Wolves were dropped to 2nd grade, Bears dropped to 3rd grade, and Webelos became an 18-21 month long program starting int 4th grade because research showed it took that long for Cub Scouts, and more than likely their parents as well, that long to adjust to the differences between Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts

2 hours ago, Chgodon said:

 So I decided to join the Cub Scouts in 2nd grade (1968 to 1969) in order to start out as a Wolf.

Not possible. Prior to August 1989, Wolfs started in 3rd grade. Also priot to August 1989, Webelos Den Leaders had to be male. That was part of the transition process  because women could NOT serve in troop leadership roles. Could the photo be misdated? And if it isn't, You may have gotten a new uniform, and the patches were not fully sewed on yet

Hope this helps. Also I may have some CS handbooks fromt eh time period. My brothers were Cubs in that time period, and since my mom knows I am interested in BSA's history, she gave me the surviving BSA materials she saved from Hurricane Katrina.

 

Good luck in the quest.