Scout wont advance

[Armymutt]

On 5/24/2023 at 6:48 PM, yknot said:

You have an MPH plus a DVM degree? The only other person I know who is military and had both is a friend who wound up a Brigadier General assigned to  the Pentagon. You have a unique background for today's challenges and are perhaps being a tad modest. 

Thanks, but there are a lot of us out there.  Probably the largest portion of the Army Veterinary Corps falls into the DVM/MPH group.  It's like being an Eagle Scout at a NESA banquet.  

On 5/25/2023 at 6:58 AM, qwazse said:

If you want to have something up your sleeve for the next time Bobby spouts off, PM me, and I’ll share footage of Ukrainian defense forces using every scout skill in the book to rescue one of their mates.

Definitely used Scout skills in the Army.  Makes the unique and difficult look routine.  Land navigation?  Philmont was excellent preparation for finding your location on a map.  Packing a ruck to carry 100lbs of equipment for a long distance?  Not a problem.  Tying a bowline to prevent losing expensive and sensitive items?  Been doing it since I was 12.

[Tron]

I don't see anything wrong with not advancing if the a scout does not want to advance; I would say that you should sit down and talk with each one of these "not wanting to advance" scouts to make sure they understand the program and the point of advancement.

A buddy of mine "accidentally" made 2nd class, he was never interested in advancement, just MB, camping, and camp cooking. His SM just noticed over time that he had completed so much rank advancement by accident by just being out with his patrol and at camp with his troop. Same guy cranked through his undergrad in 2 years and jumped to grad school at 19. Mysteries of the universe unfold.

[5thGenTexan]

My son has issues with earning 1st class because of the swimming requirement.  We live 45 minutes from a pool and its challenging to get there often enough for him to get the confidence and stamina needed for the 1st Class Swim test.    May be stuck at 2nd...

[skeptic]

If he was able to complete the second class he likely just needs to practice and maybe learn side and breast strokes.  Many youth tend to think that the crawl is the only stroke to use, but the test does not say to use the crawl, only to use a strong stroke for the seventy-five yards, and then a resting backstorke, which would normally be the elementary backstroke.  Defining strong may be an issue, but it is easier to master a breast of side stroke for a strong forward movement than the crawl in regard to energy, as they both allow a glide, especially if done properly.  As far as simply getting practice, I would encourage you to perhaps try to find a local place with a smaller pool, but one that would allow practice at shorter distances, such as smalle swim clubs or even a backyard pool.  The location does not need to be a full sized pool; and also a properly vetted lake, river, or even the ocean can work, though ocean would need to be in a restricted area as is set up at some camps.  As I got older, I found that the side and breast strokes were better for me as they did not require the energy, as I noted, just good stroke technique.  Good luck, and remember he will not need to pass the Merit Badge.  On the other hand, he might care to work on it and do the MB.  I had a scout years ago that struggled with the swim requirements, finally learning the elementary back stroke well, and simply battling through the minimum First Class stuff when he was old enough to sturggle through it minimally.  It was not pretty, but he did it.  Funny thing about him was he actually did the mile swim, completely on his back with the elementary stroke.  And he later became an Army Ranger.  When I asked him how that hap;pened, he said it was brute strength, not stroke quality.  

 

[MikeS72]

2 hours ago, 5thGenTexan said:

My son has issues with earning 1st class because of the swimming requirement.  We live 45 minutes from a pool and its challenging to get there often enough for him to get the confidence and stamina needed for the 1st Class Swim test.    May be stuck at 2nd...

I was in the same boat (dad pun intended) as a young scout 6 decades ago.  We were in a military family and until I was almost 12 we did not live close enough to a pool to learn to swim.  Had swimming not been required for advancement I likely would never have learned.  My last 2 merit badges were swimming and lifesaving, as by then I was a fairly good swimmer, but still did not care much for it, and back in the dim ages there were no alternate merit badges on the Eagle required list.

[skeptic]

15 minutes ago, MikeS72 said:

I was in the same boat (dad pun intended) as a young scout 6 decades ago.  We were in a military family and until I was almost 12 we did not live close enough to a pool to learn to swim.  Had swimming not been required for advancement I likely would never have learned.  My last 2 merit badges were swimming and lifesaving, as by then I was a fairly good swimmer, but still did not care much for it, and back in the dim ages there were no alternate merit badges on the Eagle required list.

Yep, those dim ages.  When I tell scouts I never did an Eagle project they look at me funny.  At least they had changed Bird Study to Nature on the list.  We had these small groups that we had to choose from, along with the actual required ones.  I have to say, that group concept made you have a broader exposure to various subjects.  Kind of like general education that was once required to graduate college.  Not sure that is the case now, but that was what I mostly took my first two years of college.  And it introduced me to a new face of music and art, which was good.  Understanding classical concepts has made me truly apprciate music in general, as it is a base for everything really.  And a broad knowledge is useful in life.  

 

[BetterWithCheddar]

I think COVID may have also impacted Scouts' swimming abilities. My son did "mommy and me" swim class when he was 2, but the world changed shortly thereafter and we opted not to send him to swim lessons for two years to help reduce transmission of the virus. Fast forward to last Fall and our son (then 5) was clearly struggling relative to his peers when we finally enrolled him in traditional swim lessons. It was a low point for me as parent. I felt like I had failed him.

He refused further lessons because they caused fear and embarrassment. Fortunately, his summer care program uses the YMCA pool 3x per week and he's been able to boost his confidence enough over the past 2 months that we can probably enroll him in mainstream swim lessons again (peer pressure will do that).

Point being: It will be interesting to see if there is a meaningful drop in the pass rate of BSA swimmer's tests in a few years (and with that, a meaningful drop in advancement).

[AwakeEnergyScouter]

8 hours ago, BetterWithCheddar said:

It will be interesting to see if there is a meaningful drop in the pass rate of BSA swimmer's tests in a few years (and with that, a meaningful drop in advancement).

I think yes, for the same reason. COVID pool closures struck out an important learn-to-swim season for my scout also, and I imagine lots of other kids. They'll catch up, but with a delay.

[DannyG]

On 7/16/2023 at 6:06 AM, BetterWithCheddar said:

I think COVID may have also impacted Scouts' swimming abilities. My son did "mommy and me" swim class when he was 2, but the world changed shortly thereafter and we opted not to send him to swim lessons for two years to help reduce transmission of the virus. Fast forward to last Fall and our son (then 5) was clearly struggling relative to his peers when we finally enrolled him in traditional swim lessons. It was a low point for me as parent. I felt like I had failed him.

He refused further lessons because they caused fear and embarrassment. Fortunately, his summer care program uses the YMCA pool 3x per week and he's been able to boost his confidence enough over the past 2 months that we can probably enroll him in mainstream swim lessons again (peer pressure will do that).

Point being: It will be interesting to see if there is a meaningful drop in the pass rate of BSA swimmer's tests in a few years (and with that, a meaningful drop in advancement).

I agree with this. My son went through a similar phase, after a 2-year gap between swim lessons, he got frustrated and didn't go back to formal lessons. But as he got older and stronger, and he swam more with his friends, he has developed more skills on his own. He is still stuck at 2nd class because he hasn't progressed past the Beginner test. But I think he finally realizes he needs to work at it, and I think he'll get it soon.