We have a committee ldr who is abusive beyond tolerable limits.

[Eagle94-A1]

I am shocked council got involved. we have had similar situations, and they will not intervene.

[AwakeEnergyScouter]

4 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

I am shocked council got involved. we have had similar situations, and they will not intervene.

Well, isn't that what you would hope they'd do, though? I have no idea what the proportions are between councils like his and councils like yours, but passing the buck on organizational functioning to CORs seems like abdicating leadership to me. 

Then again, this COR thing seems like a complicating layer in the middle to me, so my view may well be a bit weird.

[curious_scouter]

@Brannigan - I know you're getting a lot of shade implying you created the situation with this person with your email or comment.  I have been in your shoes with people like "Mr. Monster".

I re-entered Scouting 8 years ago as an adult (all prior experience was as a youth) thinking it would be very much a "we're all on the same team, we all want a good program, a Scout is friendly, rah-rah" atmosphere among the adult leaders.  Not exactly.  Many were welcoming, helpful and patient with my "dumb ideas" and rose colored glasses.  Some were deeply insecure and responded to any comment, idea or person that smells like "change" or something different with open hostility.  I'm not talking cold shoulder or bad attitude, I'm talking raised voices and F-bombs.  It's too bad.  Because it only takes 1 or 2 (I had 3) of the deeply insecure people to really make life unpleasant in a unit.

No kind of comment or opinion from someone new in a unit should elicit that kind of snap-back response.  This time it happened via email, but it will happen in person.  It's not you, it's definitely them.  I know exactly the type of person this is and unfortunately there are more of them in scouting leadership than people might like to admit. 

These people get into it with all kinds of people all the time over the stupidest stuff.  Last week one of my three got hot and started yelling at a new committee member because the committee member showed up in a tan uniform and that's only for ASMs and SMs.  I kid you not.  They took offense at a registered, paid position holder wearing a uniform to a meeting.  So much so they lashed out at them directly in person. 

There is no cure but time unless they are bad enough to take it upstream with a report to council or higher.  Scouting is generational.  They will move on or you will move up and have more direct ability to address it.  Until then, pick out who these people are, know they are how they are, and just be really careful around them.  They are wild animals.  It's not if they will bite you again but when.  And it'll probably be when you're not expecting it. 

The only "good news" I think I can share is that as crummy as these people have been towards me and many other adults (parents included) they have never been anything but excellent with the scouts.  That's probably their only saving grace.

[Eagle94-A1]

On 8/13/2023 at 8:12 PM, AwakeEnergyScouter said:

Well, isn't that what you would hope they'd do, though? I have no idea what the proportions are between councils like his and councils like yours, but passing the buck on organizational functioning to CORs seems like abdicating leadership to me. 

Then again, this COR thing seems like a complicating layer in the middle to me, so my view may well be a bit weird.

For whatever reason, I am just now seeing your post. As was explained to me when I asked about this way back when I was a DE and had this issue, because of the charter's legal language, the CO is the only ones who can remove leaders, except for criminal allegations. COs have the right to hire and fire unit volunteers, not the BSA

As for why the CO system exists, it is my understanding that the CO concept was to give BSA some credibility in the early days, and communities ownership of their units.

[AwakeEnergyScouter]

I'm definitely starting to think that the time when COs made sense is past. Many reasons, but assuming that the explanation you got is true, one is that BSA isn't really in control of their volunteers. That's just a hard way to operate. Too many cooks in the kitchen. And I'd say scouting in the US cleared the credibility hurdle a long, long time ago!