We have a committee ldr who is abusive beyond tolerable limits.

[Brannigan]

The Troop leader who is committee leader for our pack is burning bridges left & right, being very abusive & unprofessional. Two of us have already resigned. I will only focus on what I was initially subjected to. In a pack & family email I said "I am boggled that y'all have not explored all the tools on Scoutbook!" This individual replied in a very bad manner assuming that I was criticizing everyone. I can c/p the exchange soon-a-bouts. It seems that almost all other Pack leadership has had confrontations with this individual. I just sent an email to the Council asking about who to address inappropriate behavior with. Looking for advice.

[InquisitiveScouter]

Talk with the Committee Chair (CC) first, privately.

If that doesn't soothe things over, ask someone else who has clashed with them to speak with them privately.  The message might begin to get through.

Do not double-team or call them out in public.  It will only make matters worse.

If the behavior is destroying the Pack, take the other person/persons who have clashed with the CC, and go have a tactful conversation with the Chartered Organization Representative (COR).  Before you do this, have a plan for what to do next.  Who is going to be the next Committee Chair?  If you cannot answer that question, then all you are doing is pulling the pin on the hand grenade and tossing it in the COR's lap.  (Be a part of the solution rather than part of the problem.)

When you have the next person wo is willing to take on the role of CC, and a group of like-minded people to talk with the COR, ask the COR to speak with the CC to either modify behavior or step down.

Adults ruin Scouting.

Best wishes...

 

 

[Armymutt]

On 5/13/2023 at 9:27 PM, Brannigan said:

The Troop leader who is committee leader for our pack is burning bridges left & right, being very abusive & unprofessional. Two of us have already resigned. I will only focus on what I was initially subjected to. In a pack & family email I said "I am boggled that y'all have not explored all the tools on Scoutbook!" This individual replied in a very bad manner assuming that I was criticizing everyone. I can c/p the exchange soon-a-bouts. It seems that almost all other Pack leadership has had confrontations with this individual. I just sent an email to the Council asking about who to address inappropriate behavior with. Looking for advice.

We don't have all of the information, but your email comes across as abusive and unprofessional too.  It doesn't say "Look at this cool feature I found to help make our lives easier."  It says "Hey dummy, why haven't you looked at Scoutbook?"  My wife and I have different levels of commitment to Scouting, and different levels of time we are able/capable of spending.  If I find a cool SB feature or some other Scouting related reference, I tell her what it is, how we can use it, and how to access it.  I've even made a PowerPoint with screen shots and instructions.  My advice is to first look at why the person is acting the way they are.  They may be over worked or frustrated. 

I had a parent ask my wife (treasurer AND den leader) why we weren't cooking as a pack on a camping trip.  She was frustrated because this same parent does nothing but complain about how he did things in his old pack (that failed while he was at the helm) and how we aren't doing those things (but he can't volunteer because X).  After calming her down from quitting, I told her to ask him if he wants to b the Grubmaster, resource all of the cooking equipment, put together menus for the weekend, collect the money, purchase the food, transport it to camp, build the cooking schedule, and supervise the cooking.  If not, then he probably should just stick to the current model.  

[Navybone]

36 minutes ago, Armymutt said:

We don't have all of the information, but your email comes across as abusive and unprofessional too. 

My two cents is that email, websites, or any method where the only medium is the written word,  is not a great form of communication.  Because so much of effective communication is non-verbal, it can be very difficult to understand any nuance.  An example is that sarcasm is rarely effective in email or a site like this.  What is the mood of the reader, what else is going on, what did they just read -  all can impact how written communications is ready. 

In the example here, I totally agree that is could be received as unprofessional.  But was it meant that way. 

btw, this is always a fun topic of conversation in the Communication MB.

[Brannigan]

5 hours ago, Armymutt said:

We don't have all of the information, but your email comes across as abusive and unprofessional too.  It doesn't say "Look at this cool feature I found to help make our lives easier."  It says "Hey dummy, why haven't you looked at Scoutbook?"  My wife and I have different levels of commitment to Scouting, and different levels of time we are able/capable of spending.  If I find a cool SB feature or some other Scouting related reference, I tell her what it is, how we can use it, and how to access it.  I've even made a PowerPoint with screen shots and instructions.  My advice is to first look at why the person is acting the way they are.  They may be over worked or frustrated. 

I had a parent ask my wife (treasurer AND den leader) why we weren't cooking as a pack on a camping trip.  She was frustrated because this same parent does nothing but complain about how he did things in his old pack (that failed while he was at the helm) and how we aren't doing those things (but he can't volunteer because X).  After calming her down from quitting, I told her to ask him if he wants to b the Grubmaster, resource all of the cooking equipment, put together menus for the weekend, collect the money, purchase the food, transport it to camp, build the cooking schedule, and supervise the cooking.  If not, then he probably should just stick to the current model.  

Perhaps I have given too few details because your response is missing the target.

[HashTagScouts]

At the end of the day, the only ones to contact is the Chartered Org Representative/Institution Head. Thy approve all leaders, so Council is not the place to go.

[Brannigan]

5 hours ago, Navybone said:

My two cents is that email, websites, or any method where the only medium is the written word,  is not a great form of communication.  Because so much of effective communication is non-verbal, it can be very difficult to understand any nuance.  An example is that sarcasm is rarely effective in email or a site like this.  What is the mood of the reader, what else is going on, what did they just read -  all can impact how written communications is ready. 

In the example here, I totally agree that is could be received as unprofessional.  But was it meant that way. 

btw, this is always a fun topic of conversation in the Communication MB.

Fun? That word is another reason why I am puzzled by your response. It is true that a lot can be lost in translation via text but it important to not be hasty in response. It was, most certainly, not meant that way sir. Some of your response hold key insights though, I will say that much. Thank you.

[Brannigan]

Well, this conversation appears to be unnecessary as the questionable replies appear to no longer exist which is kind of telling in and of itself. Good day to all.

[5thGenTexan]

Unless there is a YPT or safety violation....  Council doesn't care about your issues with other leaders.

 

What "tools" in Scoutbook are not being utilized?>

[Brannigan]

Apparently y'all have been too hasty in your criticism of my concerns. The unnamed person has been removed by Council from his role based on his continued abusive behavior as a leader. He is banned from leadership in Boy Scouts. BTW, it did not involve YPT or Safety violations just leadership communications abuse. @5thGenTexan @Navybone@HashTagScouts @Armymutt@InquisitiveScouter He, who will remain forever unnamed on here, was, simply put, a very bad leader. He was in battle with almost every other leader. My sons will not suffer his "leadership" when moving to Boy Scouts, his replacement is currently being sought. I am not concerned by the 3 "negative reputation" marks as I am not at fault in this matter.

Edited August 12, 2023 by Brannigan

[SiouxRanger]

Been there.  Done that, except at the council level.

National saw it my way and retired the council exec.

Not fun, but necessary.

These things do not play out according to organization flow charts, Robert's Rules, or the Queensberry Rules.

 

[Brannigan]

On 5/15/2023 at 5:21 PM, HashTagScouts said:

At the end of the day, the only ones to contact is the Chartered Org Representative/Institution Head. Thy approve all leaders, so Council is not the place to go.

I was a lowly Den Ldr & contacted the Council & now he is "retired". Pls read my most recent post in response to this topic.

[Brannigan]

On 5/16/2023 at 10:48 AM, 5thGenTexan said:

Unless there is a YPT or safety violation....  Council doesn't care about your issues with other leaders.

 

What "tools" in Scoutbook are not being utilized?>

No YPT or Safety violation but he is "retired" for abusive behavior with other ldrs. As for Scoutbook tools, they are just recently starting to catch up with that.

[Brannigan]

On 5/15/2023 at 6:11 PM, Brannigan said:

Fun? That word is another reason why I am puzzled by your response. It is true that a lot can be lost in translation via text but it important to not be hasty in response. It was, most certainly, not meant that way sir. Some of your response hold key insights though, I will say that much. Thank you.

 

On 5/15/2023 at 4:48 PM, Brannigan said:

Perhaps I have given too few details because your response is missing the target.

Now that this (permanently) unnamed individual is permanently removed from Scout leadership roles for life, do you still feel the same way? Is it not obvious that he, not I, was at fault?

[mrjohns2]

3 hours ago, Brannigan said:

Is it not obvious that he, not I, was at fault?

No. Based on what you have said, there would be no grounds for removal. One does not get removed for “bad leadership” as you say.