Cost per Scout for SE Salary and Benefits

[InquisitiveScouter]

4 minutes ago, sierracharliescouter said:

Tell me, what is the difference between providing a STEM program to Scouts and a similar STEM program to non-scout youth, when it comes to the mission of BSA?

Because in the Scouting programs, we are still using the Aims of Scouting, which include instilling ideals of the Scout Oath and Law.  The STEM program of Scouting is one of the hooks we use to provide youth a program, while we work through the Aims to provide a "moral and ethical" context.

[Eagle94-A1]

7 minutes ago, sierracharliescouter said:

I can't believe someone is complaining about a Council doing something good for their community while at the same time helping to maintain a stable budget. If you think your council's SE isn't worth what their paying, or the council should be doing more with the resources they have, become the squeaky wheel. Venting here isn't going to change anything.

Sadly I have seen professionals focus more on making money from community sources,  than serving the Scouts. Rather than supporting an event in their territory, they are at an event that services a community several hours away. And folks wonder why FOS is down.

As for squeaky wheel, in the best case you are ignored. In the worst case, they revoke your membership. One long time volunteer in my area discovered some financial monkey business. When he started bringing it up and became the squeaky wheel, the SE revoked his membership. 

[InquisitiveScouter]

8 minutes ago, sierracharliescouter said:

I can't believe someone is complaining about a Council doing something good for their community while at the same time helping to maintain a stable budget. If you think your council's SE isn't worth what their paying, or the council should be doing more with the resources they have, become the squeaky wheel. Venting here isn't going to change anything.

Whoa, Trigger!  You know not of what you speak.  I put in well over 40 hours a week as a volunteer in our Scouting community.  And I am that "squeaky wheel," not just "venting" here.  You ought to ask a little more before casting those aspersions...

[sierracharliescouter]

10 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Because in the Scouting programs, we are still using the Aims of Scouting, which include instilling ideals of the Scout Oath and Law.  The STEM program of Scouting is one of the hooks we use to provide youth a program, while we work through the Aims to provide a "moral and ethical" context.

Once again, there is nothing in the BSA Mission that even hints that delivering services to those outside of Scouting can't be done by councils. I assume you are aware that councils are independently formed non-profit organizations, and that as long as they don't violate an agreement they have with National, there is nothing that prevents them from delivering broader services to the community.

If I thought these additional programs took anything away from how our Council delivers services, I'd be vocal about it, but I've never seen nor heard a complaint about a unit being disadvantaged because of the existence of these programs.

[InquisitiveScouter]

7 minutes ago, sierracharliescouter said:

If I thought these additional programs took anything away from how our Council delivers services, I'd be vocal about it, but I've never seen nor heard a complaint about a unit being disadvantaged because of the existence of these programs.

Fair enough... but that isn't the case around here.  

Scouting is really struggling in these parts, with many issues at cause.

If they were really an "independently formed non-profit organization", why don't they just focus on those money-making programs and just ditch all that cumbersome Scouting and "moral and ethical" stuff?? 

 

Edited May 16, 2023 by InquisitiveScouter

[Eagle94-A1]

7 minutes ago, sierracharliescouter said:

If I thought these additional programs took anything away from how our Council delivers services, I'd be vocal about it, but I've never seen nor heard a complaint about a unit being disadvantaged because of the existence of these programs.

This is indeed happening in my area. Council is focused on additional programs, and the units are not being serviced. I asked the SE why they cannot help the existing units, and was ignored. Like @InquisitiveScouter, Scouting is struggling in my area. I see 3 more units folding in my old district alone within the next 2-3 years.

What really hurts is that I went thru 2 years of hell as a professional building this area up, only to see it slowly fall apart from professional arrogance, apathy, and neglect.

[yknot]

19 minutes ago, sierracharliescouter said:

Once again, there is nothing in the BSA Mission that even hints that delivering services to those outside of Scouting can't be done by councils. I assume you are aware that councils are independently formed non-profit organizations, and that as long as they don't violate an agreement they have with National, there is nothing that prevents them from delivering broader services to the community.

If I thought these additional programs took anything away from how our Council delivers services, I'd be vocal about it, but I've never seen nor heard a complaint about a unit being disadvantaged because of the existence of these programs.

If Council camp properties are going to survive, then there has to be a place for innovative programming like this. The council camps near us that focus on traditional summer scouts only programming are falling apart and failing. The ones who have adapted their programming to welcome non scouts with various camping options and non scout families to open activities throughout the calendar year are the ones that still have the doors open and can pay the bills. Keeping the Council camp open for scouts is one way of serving the mission of scouting. It does have to be balanced with also effectively running the day to day operations of the Council and serving its scouts. 

[Eagle94-A1]

20 minutes ago, yknot said:

 It does have to be balanced with also effectively running the day to day operations of the Council and serving its scouts. 

I agree, and have seen outside groups using camps multiple times in multiple locations. but at least in my area, it is NOT being balanced.

[vol_scouter]

1 hour ago, sierracharliescouter said:

Tell me, what is the difference between providing a STEM program to Scouts and a similar STEM program to non-scout youth, when it comes to the mission of BSA?

And yes, the Council makes some money doing these non-Scout activities. It helps support having the staff needed year-round to provide better programs for Scouts. A Scout is Thrifty.

A Scout is Helpful. These programs are highly sought-after by schools who could not dream of running similar programs themselves.

I'm also not aware that the "mission" was a be-all-and-end-all criteria for defining the allowable scope of activities performed by units or Councils.

We've also picked up a few scouts who were first exposed to scouting through activities their school's participated in through these programs.

I can't believe someone is complaining about a Council doing something good for their community while at the same time helping to maintain a stable budget. If you think your council's SE isn't worth what their paying, or the council should be doing more with the resources they have, become the squeaky wheel. Venting here isn't going to change anything.

The mission of the BSA does not specify the program used to instill the values of the Scout Oath and Law so STEM programs are a valid method of fulfilling the mission.  If offering STEM programs to non-Scouts, the council could be using the experience as a recruiting tool so could support the mission of the council.

[InquisitiveScouter]

29 minutes ago, vol_scouter said:

The mission of the BSA does not specify the program used to instill the values of the Scout Oath and Law so STEM programs are a valid method of fulfilling the mission.  If offering STEM programs to non-Scouts, the council could be using the experience as a recruiting tool so could support the mission of the council.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/georgebradt/2017/12/01/why-focusing-on-your-core-is-almost-always-the-right-choice/?sh=4b2e451e21b5

Especially #2

[AwakeEnergyScouter]

I agree that you have to deliver on your core mission or you're in big trouble as an organization, but neither councils nor the BSA are stand-alone organizations connected by legalese, they're part of a movement. I e the key question is does the activity fit the movement, not the text of a policy. STEM programs for non-scouts develops youth; consistent with aims of movement. No ideological conflict.

If it can be done without compromising running scouts, then I see only upsides. If it can't, then it's a potentially dangerous distraction and should be jettisoned in favor of supporting scouts. Sounds like it depends on the council in practice.

[DuctTape]

I think it is a good idea to have property used as an additional revenue stream. However, I question (ever so slightly) the use of council staff to provide programming even for a fee as this takes the staff away from their primary job of supporting scouting units. If the council staff is not needed to support the units, then perhaps staffing reduction needs to be considered. If the fees charged to these other organizations are minimal, then there is a significant issue IMO. Councils should not be subsidizing the cost of other organizations by providing staff programming at a discount. If this were ther case, then it would be the scouting units themselves which are subsidizing these other groups through council unit fees, fundraising etc...  Now if volunteers provided the programming at a cost to these other groups at the market rate as a revenue stream for the council, then this is an awesome way to subsidize the scouting units to keep costs to the units lower..

[qwazse]

Implicit in expanding market share, one of the purposes of professional staff is promote the program to the people who are not yet sponsoring scouts. That balance between catering to existing volunteers and seeking out new ones (be they scouters, board members, donors, or CO’s) is precarious.

[DeaconLance]

On 5/16/2023 at 3:41 PM, vol_scouter said:

The mission of the BSA does not specify the program used to instill the values of the Scout Oath and Law so STEM programs are a valid method of fulfilling the mission.  If offering STEM programs to non-Scouts, the council could be using the experience as a recruiting tool so could support the mission of the council.

It would be the BSA’s congressional charter that specifies the outdoor program.  Trying to be everything to everybody does not work.

[BetterWithCheddar]

On 5/13/2023 at 9:10 AM, 1980Scouter said:

My LC SE salary and benefits are $290,000 for a council with 6,000 scouts. This equals almost $50 per scout to fund the SE. 

 

This seems very excessive to me in that the council has lost 2/3 of youth members over the last 5 years. What are other councils paying per scout? 

This was a fun little exercise. 

• Our local Scout Exec's salary and benefits total ~$140,000.
• Our council serve's ~9,000 youth (down from ~18,000 in 2019).
• This works out to roughly $16 per scout.
• We live in a low-to-moderate cost of living area where a mid-career college grad or skilled tradesman probably earns ~$80,000 per year (figure closer to $100,000 with benefits)

Honestly, $140,000 for a Scout Exec doesn't seem THAT bad by comparison.