Cost per Scout for SE Salary and Benefits

[1980Scouter]

My LC SE salary and benefits are $290,000 for a council with 6,000 scouts. This equals almost $50 per scout to fund the SE. 

 

This seems very excessive to me in that the council has lost 2/3 of youth members over the last 5 years. What are other councils paying per scout? 

[Scouterlockport]

5 hours ago, 1980Scouter said:

My LC SE salary and benefits are $290,000 for a council with 6,000 scouts. This equals almost $50 per scout to fund the SE. 

 

This seems very excessive to me in that the council has lost 2/3 of youth members over the last 5 years. What are other councils paying per scout? 

The crazier part of this is would still be over 22 dollars per scout before hand. What are we paying them for. At least other CEO/VP positions in other nonprofits have connections in there given field or community. In the scouting model SE are just flown in from some other part of the country without an connection to the local area.

I just looked up tax information pre covid it would have been 23 dollars per scout and now it is up to 27 per scout. And that was up in the north east.

Edited May 13, 2023 by Scouterlockport
Added info

[InquisitiveScouter]

From the income by zip code finder https://www.incomebyzipcode.com/

By any stats you look at for our zip code (and surrounding) our SE is way overpaid... top 20% of households!, not just single income earners.  Our SE salary is double the median for individual income.

Again, when people ask me if they should donate to council, I point these numbers out, so they can make an informed decision.  If they ask for advice, I suggest they give it directly to a unit, or put their money elsewhere to do good in our community.

P.S.  Just checked... our SE makes 50% more than the CEO of our local land preservation trust.  This land trust has twice the employees, outright owns over 1500 acres throughout 50 properties, many with historic buildings in preservation.  They recruit a small army of volunteers to help maintain these properties.  They manage conservation easements on 16,000 more acres, and put on many more events during the year than our council does, including day camps for kids (focusing on environmental education) throughout the summer.  (They do not do an overnight camp, though.)

Council total assets is $6.6M, with revenue of $939K.  Land preservation trust assets are $27.4M, with revenue of $7.4M.

Might be apples to oranges, but I think it is a near-comparison.

Edited May 14, 2023 by InquisitiveScouter

[sierracharliescouter]

Something to consider, which may or may not be applicable in your case, is what other services your Council manages/runs outside of Scouts. In our council, there are some very significant programs run that involve school programs across the region, including overnights by non-scouts at more than one of the council facilities. Our SE does have to be involved in overseeing a lot of non-scout programs, involving thousands more youth than just the scout numbers. 

[InquisitiveScouter]

39 minutes ago, sierracharliescouter said:

Something to consider, which may or may not be applicable in your case, is what other services your Council manages/runs outside of Scouts. In our council, there are some very significant programs run that involve school programs across the region, including overnights by non-scouts at more than one of the council facilities. Our SE does have to be involved in overseeing a lot of non-scout programs, involving thousands more youth than just the scout numbers. 

Our council does none of that.

[DuctTape]

Why would the SE oversee programs not involving scouts? Even if a non-scout group was to rent a council facility, that group's leadership is still responsible for their own group's program, not the SE.

[InquisitiveScouter]

1 hour ago, DuctTape said:

Why would the SE oversee programs not involving scouts? Even if a non-scout group was to rent a council facility, that group's leadership is still responsible for their own group's program, not the SE.

I think the were referring to Learning for Life and ScoutReach programs, if they are still going??

[Scouterlockport]

19 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

I think the were referring to Learning for Life and ScoutReach programs, if they are still going??

Those would still be under the bsa umbrella, so I dont think that is the program he is talking about

[InquisitiveScouter]

17 hours ago, sierracharliescouter said:

Something to consider, which may or may not be applicable in your case, is what other services your Council manages/runs outside of Scouts. In our council, there are some very significant programs run that involve school programs across the region, including overnights by non-scouts at more than one of the council facilities. Our SE does have to be involved in overseeing a lot of non-scout programs, involving thousands more youth than just the scout numbers. 

Would you elaborate, please?  To what services "outside of Scouts", what kinds of "significant programs", and what "non-Scout programs" are you referring?

[Jameson76]

On 5/13/2023 at 10:10 AM, 1980Scouter said:

My LC SE salary and benefits are $290,000 for a council with 6,000 scouts. This equals almost $50 per scout to fund the SE. 

 

This seems very excessive to me in that the council has lost 2/3 of youth members over the last 5 years. What are other councils paying per scout? 

To quote Mel Brooks in Blazing Saddles....We've gotta protect our phony baloney jobs!.  Or in the BSA's case .... We've gotta raise money for our phony baloney jobs!

[sierracharliescouter]

3 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Would you elaborate, please?  To what services "outside of Scouts", what kinds of "significant programs", and what "non-Scout programs" are you referring?

Our council runs a variety of STEM camps (overnights) and day-programs for local schools (and home school programs). This puts the facilities to good use during the school year at times the facilities would not normally be used by scout groups.

[sierracharliescouter]

19 hours ago, DuctTape said:

Why would the SE oversee programs not involving scouts? Even if a non-scout group was to rent a council facility, that group's leadership is still responsible for their own group's program, not the SE.

The SE is responsible for all of the facilities run by the council, whether they are being used for scouts or other groups. In the case of our council, they have worked with the schools to develop and run STEM programs for the schools. The school group is still responsible for supervising their group, but the program is provided (at a fee) by council staff.

[InquisitiveScouter]

12 minutes ago, sierracharliescouter said:

The SE is responsible for all of the facilities run by the council, whether they are being used for scouts or other groups. In the case of our council, they have worked with the schools to develop and run STEM programs for the schools. The school group is still responsible for supervising their group, but the program is provided (at a fee) by council staff.

Thanks, but isn't that  "mission creep"??

What you describe seems to go outside the stated mission of the BSA: "The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law."

[DuctTape]

14 minutes ago, sierracharliescouter said:

The SE is responsible for all of the facilities run by the council, whether they are being used for scouts or other groups. In the case of our council, they have worked with the schools to develop and run STEM programs for the schools. The school group is still responsible for supervising their group, but the program is provided (at a fee) by council staff.

Interesting. That must be quite the money-maker for the council.

[sierracharliescouter]

1 hour ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Thanks, but isn't that  "mission creep"??

What you describe seems to go outside the stated mission of the BSA: "The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law."

Tell me, what is the difference between providing a STEM program to Scouts and a similar STEM program to non-scout youth, when it comes to the mission of BSA?

And yes, the Council makes some money doing these non-Scout activities. It helps support having the staff needed year-round to provide better programs for Scouts. A Scout is Thrifty.

A Scout is Helpful. These programs are highly sought-after by schools who could not dream of running similar programs themselves.

I'm also not aware that the "mission" was a be-all-and-end-all criteria for defining the allowable scope of activities performed by units or Councils.

We've also picked up a few scouts who were first exposed to scouting through activities their school's participated in through these programs.

I can't believe someone is complaining about a Council doing something good for their community while at the same time helping to maintain a stable budget. If you think your council's SE isn't worth what their paying, or the council should be doing more with the resources they have, become the squeaky wheel. Venting here isn't going to change anything.