Council Mergers/Reductions Post Bankruptcy

[mrjohns2]

1 hour ago, Tron said:

That is interesting, do you have an example (I would like to check out a council website of such a small council to see what a council that small is up to). 

There was a spreadsheet a few years back that showed sizes and the ranges (ABCD?). 

[InquisitiveScouter]

1 hour ago, fred8033 said:

I just don't understand the need for small councils anymore.  Most training and registration is online.  The key now is economies of scale to reduce cost and offer more opportunities.  

Jobs... and feeding at the trough of donations...

[RememberSchiff]

On 11/6/2023 at 12:35 PM, fred8033 said:

Yep, but low scout numbers.  4300 scouts.  That should be considered a small size council that could be merged yet again one or two more times.  

 

3 hours ago, Tron said:

Is there some formula for condensing or dividing councils? The local council here and most of the surrounding councils are in the 4-5000 scout range; does that put them at risk of merger?

That is interesting, do you have an example (I would like to check out a council website of such a small council to see what a council that small is up to). 

My guess from reading the recent Report of the Governance & Nominating Committee (page 6, blue column about half-way down) is that around 5000 scouts would be National's preferred minimum council size. 

[HashTagScouts]

7 hours ago, Tron said:

Is there some formula for condensing or dividing councils? The local council here and most of the surrounding councils are in the 4-5000 scout range; does that put them at risk of merger?

That is interesting, do you have an example (I would like to check out a council website of such a small council to see what a council that small is up to). 

Greenwich Council BSA (greenwichscouting.org)

[dk516]

7 hours ago, fred8033 said:

I just don't understand the need for small councils anymore.  Most training and registration is online.  The key now is economies of scale to reduce cost and offer more opportunities.  

@fred8033 I understand the economy of scale but I think this is not the only factor we should look at. The Council my units are residing in has been merged several times in the past 5 years. It has been in constant decline, even with the mergers and is now less than 3'000 active youth. However, it geographically spans across each half of 3 states! We no longer go to our Council Summer Camp because of programming and distance for our Troop. My oldest did NYLT last year and is looking to staff it next year. The in-Council NYLT which I would have preferred was 5hrs driving away which makes it an overnight drop-off and pickup whereas are neighboring Council courses where 45 minutes from our Troop location and so is there summer camp.

If we're all realistic, you would not need any Council for membership administration OR online training. Both could easily be handled by a national office with a little more investment into technology. What we are loosing with this economy of scale is the in-person volunteer networking that keeps this organization going. I have not been to a single Council event this year even though I am actively volunteering on multiple levels because I could just not get it together having to drive multiple hours to a Council event and back. That's where we lose with all these mergers.

[Tron]

19 hours ago, RememberSchiff said:

 

My guess from reading the recent Report of the Governance & Nominating Committee (page 6, blue column about half-way down) is that around 5000 scouts would be National's preferred minimum council size. 

Yeah I see what you see. Looks like national is not forcing small councils to merge but is reducing their voting ability unless they grow to at least 5000 scouts. I sort of like this 1 rep/vote per 5000 scouts, it gives a huge voice to well performing councils that are recruiting like mad. 

[Tron]

15 hours ago, dk516 said:

@fred8033 I understand the economy of scale but I think this is not the only factor we should look at. The Council my units are residing in has been merged several times in the past 5 years. It has been in constant decline, even with the mergers and is now less than 3'000 active youth. However, it geographically spans across each half of 3 states! We no longer go to our Council Summer Camp because of programming and distance for our Troop. My oldest did NYLT last year and is looking to staff it next year. The in-Council NYLT which I would have preferred was 5hrs driving away which makes it an overnight drop-off and pickup whereas are neighboring Council courses where 45 minutes from our Troop location and so is there summer camp.

If we're all realistic, you would not need any Council for membership administration OR online training. Both could easily be handled by a national office with a little more investment into technology. What we are loosing with this economy of scale is the in-person volunteer networking that keeps this organization going. I have not been to a single Council event this year even though I am actively volunteering on multiple levels because I could just not get it together having to drive multiple hours to a Council event and back. That's where we lose with all these mergers.

Good points about making it difficult to get to the in person council events. Before your merger were CORs/COR delegates going to those things?

[Tron]

16 hours ago, HashTagScouts said:

Greenwich Council BSA (greenwichscouting.org)

Small world, I know a SM who's troop travels to camp at Camp Seton in that council due to it's expensive but high quality program. Looking at the website I notice some staggering differences in the amount of information provided straight up vs my local councils website which is as lean as it can get with pre-covid out of date information and broken links. I also know that the Greenwich Council is one of the most financially stable councils in New England. 

Wondering if this is such a jump but; are some small councils prospering because of good information flow, above average economic area, and year-over-year quality programming?

[InquisitiveScouter]

2 minutes ago, Tron said:

Wondering if this is such a jump but; are some small councils prospering because of good information flow, above average economic area, and year-over-year quality programming?

Yes.

And this formula works at the unit level within councils as well...

[PACAN]

Greenwich is one of the richest County in the country.   If you had their resources you would not worry about council operations budget. 

[HashTagScouts]

1 hour ago, PACAN said:

Greenwich is one of the richest County in the country.   If you had their resources you would not worry about council operations budget. 

I hear from Scouters from NYC that GC has had a huge endowment and probably has been tapping into it for a few years.

They don't have a big professional staff, but realistically every one of those staff are effectively unit-centric, there are no (real and/or metaphorical) "layers" to go through before you can get to the SE or even Council President. It is a lot like much of the country 40-50 years ago.

Cape Cod & Islands Council, though bigger territory, is very small total number of Scouts (and declining year-over-year) with only like three professional staff. The SE is also the DE. 

[RememberSchiff]

Nov 21, 2023:  Arkansas

It was announced Quapaw (3400 scouts in 39 counties) and Westark (2800 scouts, 17 counties) Area Boy Scout Councils will merge to form the Natural State Council.

Sources:

https://nwa.pressreader.com/article/281827173508349  

https://www.kark.com/news/local-news/quapaw-westark-area-boy-scout-councils-announce-merger/

[MikeS72]

19 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

Nov 21, 2023:  Arkansas

It was announced Quapaw (3400 scouts in 39 counties) and Westark (2800 scouts, 17 counties) Area Boy Scout Councils will merge to form the Natural State Council.

Sources:

https://nwa.pressreader.com/article/281827173508349  

https://www.kark.com/news/local-news/quapaw-westark-area-boy-scout-councils-announce-merger/

Sounds like a net positive for both councils.  I am sure the newly formed Natural State Council will do just fine under Shanna's leadership.  (Shanna was our DE here in CFC a while back - great person to work with)