Chapter 11 announced - Part 14 - Plan Effective

[InquisitiveScouter]

If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for, even when it isn't there.

[johnsch322]

13 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for, even when it isn't there.

If you are blind to what is offensive, you will continue to offend.

I have a few years behind me and have watched society change over the course of my seven decades. What was said or attitudes towards people have changed because those who were offended spoke out. It started small and grew. I point out attitudes to those who offend CSA survivors hoping to expand their knowledge and hopefully change their perceptions. 

[InquisitiveScouter]

30 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:

If you are blind to what is offensive, you will continue to offend.

I have a few years behind me and have watched society change over the course of my seven decades. What was said or attitudes towards people have changed because those who were offended spoke out. It started small and grew. I point out attitudes to those who offend CSA survivors hoping to expand their knowledge and hopefully change their perceptions. 

It's a balance, and a coping skill.  As a survivor, I find nothing offensive in @Ojoman's post.  I find the perspective very different than mine, and much more sympathetic to BSA as an organization.

I am not blind to what is offensive, because, for me at least, I look for intent.  I see no intent to offend in those remarks.  Hence, "...even when it isn't there."

Being kind works both ways.

Edited December 8, 2023 by InquisitiveScouter

[johnsch322]

18 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

I am not blind to what is offensive, because, for me at least, I look for intent.  I see no intent to offend in those remarks.  Hence, "...even when it isn't there."

I understand exactly where you are coming from, and I am glad that it works for you.

As a child living in England when my father was in the Air Force, he had a black coworker/friend come knocking on our door. My 5-year-old cousin answered the door and shouted out to my father "there is a golliwog here to see you Uncle John". Luckily my father's friend took no offense but my cousin Tommy was told that what he said was offensive so he would not to repeat what he had said.

[InquisitiveScouter]

Thanks for demonstrating my point.

Be the friend at the door.

As the one correcting cousin Tommy, send @Ojoman a private message.

Edited December 9, 2023 by InquisitiveScouter

[johnsch322]

1 hour ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Thanks for demonstrating my point.

Be the friend at the door.

As the one correcting cousin Tommy, send @Ojoman a private message.

So I should send @Ojomana private message yet you choose to use this forum to try to correct me……hmmmmm

[InquisitiveScouter]

Just now, johnsch322 said:

So I should send @Ojomana private message yet you choose to use this forum to try to correct me……hmmmmm

Choosing to be offended again?? 😛

 

[johnsch322]

1 minute ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Choosing to be offended again?? 😛

 

Not offended. I think the hypocrisy is hilarious. 

[MYCVAStory]

1 hour ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Choosing to be offended again?? 😛

The whole "Being offended is a choice" is an interesting issue.  This piece is food for thought: https://thirdhour.org/blog/life/being-offended-is-a-choice-as-cop-out/

For Survivors, it often isn't a choice.  For many, working on making that better is a lifetime sentence.

[SiouxRanger]

22 hours ago, johnsch322 said:

I differ with you on this point. I think it was more intended to keep the BSA's own reputation safe. Why else would they have been secret files that BSA wouldn't share with other organizations and even deny the existence of? In front of a Congressional committee a BSA official said they had no CSA issues.

Exactly.

[Ojoman]

3 hours ago, SiouxRanger said:

I differ with you on this point. I think it was more intended to keep the BSA's own reputation safe. Why else would they have been secret files that BSA wouldn't share with other organizations and even deny the existence of? In front of a Congressional committee a BSA official said they had no CSA issues..

Since you asked why else... It is assumed that the BSA shirked its duty to protect kids because not every case was criminally prosecuted and the the sole reason was to protect the BSA image. While I don't have the proof I would bet that there were many thousands of abusers who were prosecuted and also that a fair number of the 82k cases were known to authorities but for various reasons charges did not go forward for the same reason that many rape cases don't go forward. A lack of evidence, reluctance of families to testify, the amount of time that passes before an accusation is made, reluctance to count on a child's testimony, the disappearance of the perpetrator and so on. However, I will go on record as believing that in many cases local or national officials did not want the bad press. The one case I was involved with a volunteer got 3 teens (Jr/Sr HS, age 17) after a Red Cross class he ran. They were to 'join' him for a 'party' and after some drinking (and maybe drugs) he got them all engaged in sex. One of the teens was a scout. The newspaper, when the story broke headlined 'SCOUT LEADER ARRESTED FOR MOLESTATION'. The Red Cross director told our exec, 'I'm glad the Boy Scouts sell more newspapers than the Red Cross. I hope my response doesn't come across as insensitive. I seem to have already ruffled too many feathers. It is a sensitive issue. 

[skeptic]

4 hours ago, SiouxRanger said:

Exactly.

Not exactly; there has been discourse on this Forum of this very thing.  Few other groups were willing to get involved with shared info, and the IV files were never secret, other than the legal needs of the time,, just not publicized.  Again, this is simply a twisting of the story while leaving out much of the peripheral info.  And it also ignores the changes over time that relate to the whole thing.  BSA has always been an integral part of our society, but it does not control those outside it, or even completely control those within.  Guidelines are easily ignored, and many people choose to avoid conflict and bad interactions when so confronted.  And, as we can still see here, some cannot acknowledge it is not black and white, and never will be.  Too many human traits come into play, and there will never be total safety from abuse or anything else in our broader society, no matter how we try.  No organization is immune to bad actions from within or without.  Look at Congress, police departments, the military, Child Welfare bureaus, schools, and so on.  We can only work towards that ideal of safety and security, but we can neve guarantee it.  

Edited December 9, 2023 by skeptic
basic edit

[Ojoman]

2 hours ago, skeptic said:

We can only work towards that ideal of safety and security, but we can neve guarantee it.  

Exactly!

[clbkbx]

On 12/9/2023 at 6:24 PM, skeptic said:

but it does not control those outside it, or even completely control those within

Here’s a comment about the Boy Scouts’ current actions: the only substantive change from the last bankruptcy plan voted down to the approved one is more youth protection. Negotiating on the level of protection clearly shows that they are a corporation trying to protect themselves. Agreed there is always risk but they are foremost managing the risk to themselves and hard to believe this approach has only changed recently (to be more cynical).

The person that abused me did go to prison. Before then, a Boy Scouts employee told an ASM his suspicions were unfounded (continuing the abuse), at least two Boy Scouts employees allowed him to take me to camps that were closed where I was raped, no one at the Boy Scouts reached about after this became public, etc.

It can’t be both ways: it’s always going to happen and we’ll only do what we need to do to in order to be a viable business. 

[Ojoman]

10 hours ago, clbkbx said:

It can’t be both ways: it’s always going to happen and we’ll only do what we need to do to in order to be a viable business. 

Having been 'on the inside'in the 70's, 80's, 90's and more I can tell you that the BSA was doing youth protection training way back. We had 'experts' on VHS tapes telling volunteers and parents the signs, we had 2 deep leadership rules, and we had handouts and even a quiz on the subject for years before any other agency even thought about this type of training. As time passed more steps were added. With the advent of digital cameras and phones that could record that was added to the mix. Sorry to break your balloon but I was a BSA employee and I know how active the BSA was over 4 decades ago in addressing this problem. Predators don't arrive with a scarlet letter on their shirt. They look just like everyone else and most of them don't have a record. The BSA was well ahead of the curve. People are imperfect and can sometimes be overly trusting and it sounds like your case was one such case (of a significant number). In an agency dealing with many millions of kids and millions of adults over the years things happen. Doesn't make it right or dismiss it. You can't make wrongs right but for the councils I worked in and the professionals I worked with, I can say that your words are in error. Regardless of the motive it is well to remember that the BSA was a part of the awakening of all youth agencies to the issue of abuse. You may say too little, too late and as a victim I understand your feelings. The bastard that abused you, I hope he got a long, long sentence. I hope that all the volunteers that I helped train did protect the youth in their charge and that my efforts to hold up the BSA youth protection standards protected kids. The BSA has well over 40 decades of getting the word out. Not once did I ever hear anyone say, ignore it, sweep it under the rug... we need to protect our image. Just had to respond to your point of view with my actual experiences.