Chapter 11 announced - Part 14 - Plan Effective

[Eagle1970]

My claim was reduced by 90%, so I'm not getting much anyway.  But all this talk about claims being paid at 100% look like intentionally false statements.  50% funding would have been bad, but at least something.  But this may end up at 15%.  How could they possibly get it so wrong?

[Tron]

On 2/6/2025 at 9:34 PM, Eagle1970 said:

My claim was reduced by 90%, so I'm not getting much anyway.  But all this talk about claims being paid at 100% look like intentionally false statements.  50% funding would have been bad, but at least something.  But this may end up at 15%.  How could they possibly get it so wrong?

Did the lawyers get it wrong or were they being disingenuous?

[skeptic]

5 hours ago, Tron said:

Did the lawyers get it wrong or were they being disingenuous?

Key word:  Lawyers.  Enough said.

 

[Muttsy]

Tim Kosnoff is an attorney and he called it a b.s. settlement (he actually called it “sellout” not a settlement. Fools believed the unbelievable. A “substantial” majority of survivors voted to approve it. 
 

If you voted for it, look in the mirror for who to blame. Of course, those lawyers were lying. But it was all there in black and white. What a fool believes—he sees. 

[johnsch322]

49 minutes ago, Muttsy said:

Tim Kosnoff is an attorney and he called it a b.s. settlement (he actually called it “sellout” not a settlement. Fools believed the unbelievable. A “substantial” majority of survivors voted to approve it. 
 

If you voted for it, look in the mirror for who to blame. Of course, those lawyers were lying. But it was all there in black and white. What a fool believes—he sees. 

I for one voted no both times. 

[Eagle1970]

I also voted no.  As soon as I learned that my claim would be mostly wiped out by the Matrix SoL, there was no point in supporting it.  Then, to make matters worse, although I submitted a lot of case law the administrator reduced the claim as much as possible.  The matrix had made the state where my abuse occurred a 10-25% factor.  You guessed it...she used the 10 and wouldn't begin to adjust it in "reconsideration".  The whole thing is a sham.

[Muttsy]

Everybody should be rooting for the 3rd Circuit to reject the BSA’s equitable mootness argument. With that done, the plan is effectively finished because of Sackler ruling rejecting non-consensual third party releases. Century Chubb and the other settling insurers will pull their contributions to the ST which will be kaput. So then…it will get interesting. Kosnoff has been floating some possibilities all of which are much better than this POS the TCC and the all corrupt law firms foisted on the survivors. 

[Eagle1970]

I had read that if the Third Circuit tosses the Trust, most of us get nothing.  I can't find any detail online regarding Kosnoff's plan if it is rejected.  Can you elaborate?

[Muttsy]

That’s the propaganda being spouted by Doug Kennedy and the cabal of lawyers who stand to make hundreds of millions if it is upheld while their clients get bupkis. Kennedy has already cashed in by settling his Catholic Church part of the case for millions. The delay in finalizing the plan was delaying his real payday. 
 

Kosnoff’s vision is based on a couple of things  One is the liquidation of BSA’s assets in a Ch 7 or liquidating Ch 11 after the plan is overturned. The ample insurance policies survive BSA’s demise and are the most valuable assets of BSA and the locals and sponsors. Expect those entities to start negotiating either before or after their own Ch 11’s.

Century/Chubb will come in and attempt to settle out individual or clusters of claims on a state by state basis.

Before the total capitulation by the TCC and Pachulski Stang at the confirmation trial in 2022, it had compiled insurance policy discovery and expert testimony (it never presented at trial bc it sold out the claimants) that showed insurance proceeds at between 90 and 120 billion dollars. That coverage springs back to life when this plan is allowed to collapse.  This 90-to 120 billion does not include the thousands of other liability insurance policies owned by the multitude of charter organizations most of whom received releases and contributed not a dime to the settlement. These untapped unknown policies were never pursued by the TCC and PS. Total professional malpractice if not outright fraud. 

As for these massive statute of limitations percentage reductions, some as much as 90%, the survivors will be back in control and not subject to the arbitrary whims of Houser.

This is where getting help from state legislatures will come in to play.
 

Several states have passed special window statutes tailored only to scout survivor residents of their own states …OH, AR, IN to name a few. Others will do the same because it’s an easy sell to reluctant legislators—a narrow window bill (first done in Michigan in the Larry Nasser US Gymnastics case several years ago) won’t impact any other entities e.g. schools, churches, local governments, other private organizations etc, but only scout insurers. It represents millions of dollars of revenue to a small subset of their residents who pay taxes, make purchases, and thereby help local businesses. It’s not a difficult sell. 

Local scout councils free from the yoke of a defunct BSA can reorganize and BSA National with all of its wasteful expensive, nepotistic bureaucracy will be vanquished to the trash heap. Scouting will have a new birth of freedom, free to go back to its roots with freedom to innovate and adapt to local conditions and sensibilities. What works in CA may not in AL or FL. etc.

 I expect scouting will evolve into a federation of independent scout organizations -  which will be healthier for the movement than what exists now or in the past.

Finally, I personally hope to see the 1/2 billion dollars in legal fees approved by Judge Silverstein and wasted on these bankruptcy law firms clawed back into a pot for the claimants via a class action malpractice lawsuit on behalf of all the claimants  

This is how the case should have been approached at the outset. BSA could not survive if survivors did not get screwed . There could only be one winner in this showdown.
 

Conversely, survivors would never get meaningful justice and accountability, if BSA was allowed to survive. Only Kosnoff understood this fundamental truth.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[fred8033]

On 2/12/2025 at 8:24 PM, Muttsy said:

... The delay in finalizing the plan was delaying ... real payday.  ... . Total professional malpractice if not outright fraud. ...

Agree with much that you wrote.  Big dollar payouts to those in the legal system drove this case.  But then again, that's how the system is setup.  I watched the monthly bankruptcy billing invoices that paid firm partners far over a thousand an hour, other lawyers at $600 plus and hour and para-legal staff charging hundreds per hour. 

The whole case is about getting money out of deep pockets.  

 

On 2/12/2025 at 8:24 PM, Muttsy said:

Finally, I personally hope to see the 1/2 billion dollars in legal fees approved by Judge Silverstein and wasted on these bankruptcy law firms clawed back into a pot for the claimants via a class action malpractice lawsuit on behalf of all the claimants  

Spent money won't be recovered.  Courts approved the payments.  The legal system won't start a major case against itself.  Plus, it can be argued that this is the nature of complex cases especially when the Supreme Court changes case law interpretations. 

 

On 2/12/2025 at 8:24 PM, Muttsy said:

This is where getting help from state legislatures will come in to play.  ...  Several states have passed special window statutes tailored only to scout survivor residents of their own states …

Legislative momentum for this has fallen off.  Perhaps, a few states could start again.  BUT, I really doubt it.  It's old news at this point.  

 

On 2/12/2025 at 8:24 PM, Muttsy said:

I expect scouting will evolve into a federation of independent scout organizations -  which will be healthier for the movement than what exists now or in the past.

Could very well be and it could be a good thing.  It's more important to get youth outside having adventures than focusing on a single national scouting organization.

 

On 2/12/2025 at 8:24 PM, Muttsy said:

Conversely, survivors would never get meaningful justice and accountability, if BSA was allowed to survive.

This is where we all have different opinions.  "My opinion" is that this case has never been about justice and accountability.  This is about finding someone to blame for the ills of society.  

Edited February 14 by fred8033

[MYCVAStory]

On 2/12/2025 at 9:24 PM, Muttsy said:

That’s the propaganda being spouted by Doug Kennedy and the cabal of lawyers who stand to make hundreds of millions if it is upheld while their clients get bupkis. Kennedy has already cashed in by settling his Catholic Church part of the case for millions. The delay in finalizing the plan was delaying his real payday. 

Kennedy isn't hard to find.  I reached out online and shared your post.  His comment was "I don't know why this person seems to have a vendetta against me.  I hope he finds peace.  We knew we wouldn't make everyone happy but I do appreciate the people who have kept in touch with all the TCC members and showed their appreciation.  I haven't commented on the settlement publicly in a very long time and like others, I'm waiting for a decision on the appeal.  So others know, I have not received A DIME from this settlement.  I've heard nothing from the Trust regarding an award.  I also have NOTHING to do with the Catholic Church.  My lawsuit prior to the bankruptcy was against the BSA, local council, and my abuser; NOT the Catholic Church.  Anyone who cares can search the New York State cases online and see those details.  I filed as John Doe but it was the first BSA lawsuit after the window opened.  Frankly, if I'm the last one to see a dollar from this I'm okay with that and anyone who says differently doesn't know me and is just plain wrong."

My own two cents.... I get why people feel pro and con about the settlement.  So much is the product of a bankruptcy system NOT designed for the Survivors of child sexual abuse.  As far as Saint Kosnoff having all the answers, I can only shake my head at the reality that the BSA put its bets on the Coalition, of which Mr. Kosnoff was an initial member before the Court expedited his removal in an agreement with the remaining Coalition leaders.  The Coalition, despite representing 65% of the total claims, then failed to deliver the remaining 10% of the needsd votes.  This cost all Survivors a year and who knows how many died in the interim.  But maybe the Coalition firms don't care because the claims live on, and so too does the 33-40% contingency to those firms.  And the capper, the Court just issued a verdict that the Coalition should receive ZERO dollars from the BSA because their work provided NO substantial contribution and was duplicative of the work already being done by the TCC and other parties.  

Whether you love or hate the plan, facts matter.  Here's some other facts that I'm sure will piss people off.  At the time that the BSA declared bankruptcy some Survivors were days away from their cases going to court, those in open States lost their individual cases and what could have been a big award, and those in "closed" States had zero path to a lawsuit being heard in court.  But, the plan included a one-year period when Survivors could mobilize in their States and have the SOLs changed so they'd be in a better matrix position.  That happened in some States and continues to happen, perhaps too late for this bankruptcy but now allowing suits against abusers and other entities.  That's equity and not equality; but was the reality at the time of the bankruptcy.  That's "business" and not justice.  That's bankruptcy.  I don't like it and in a perfect world there would have been no closed States and a bottomless pit of money.  Neither was the case then, or now.  This whole "liquidate the BSA" fantasy is just that.  Survivors are UNSECURED creditors and will be left fighting over the scraps after SECURED creditors are satisfied.  As well, if that happens you'd better like your attorney and they'd better be ready to get your case heard ASAP before other BIG awards wipe out the available money.  Oh, you're going to sue the insurance companies?  You'd better be prepared to wait 7-10 years for that settlement AND hope others haven't beaten you to the policy limits.  Uh...and if your attorney has hundreds or thousands of clients, start thinking about how you'll get in line early before every other Survivor who wants to do the same.  It won't happen if your case needs a ton of discovery and work or is of low "value."  Lastly, if you think the insurers will sit around forever waiting to pay, guess what, if the amount of claims exceeds their assets (like was the case with Century Insurers), they'll do this....file for bankruptcy and go into "runoff", again leaving some with nothing.

I'm sorry to be a downer.  I just want some who think the solution is for this plan to go up in flames to understand that some scenarios might be missing a bit of reality.  Feel free to rip me up.  I'm not going to debate hypotheticals.  I'll see you after the appellate court chimes in and we can discuss reality.  PS, the court is going to deny the appeal 😉

 

 

 

[Eagle1970]

Thanks for the input.  As with everyone else, I check daily to see if there is anything new on the 3rd Circuit.  Hopefully it will be very soon.  Survivors are aging out by the day.