Chapter 11 announced - Part 14 - Plan Effective

[Ojoman]

42 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

So if the settlement is declared null and void, what happens to the money that councils gave National for the settlement? Will camps on the selling block be put on hold? What about COs that put money towards to settlement? Will post 1970s COs have insurance coverage from National cover any lawsuits against them per the charter agreements?

Too late for our council cub camp.... gone. Of course the silver lining will be all the new billable hours/expenses that the lawyers and law firms can charge. 

[BadChannel70]

There are approximately 300 survivors, and I am one of them, who paid $10k-$20k, to the trust to have our claims settled through the IRO. That's $6,000,000.00 that needs to be refunded back to us if the plan is not confirmed. This doesn't even include the expense of obtaining an Expert Report required for the IRO. Probably a few million dollars more too. Then there is Discovery which isn't free either.

The worst part is those of us who have gone through the 6-hour deposition and/or IRO hearing with the un-settled insurance carriers. My depo went almost the full 6 hours, and my attorneys said their other client's depos are taking just as long. I had to sit there and recount in graphic detail describing the sexual abuse, how long it lasted, when was the 1st time, etc. Yes, the insurance carriers are requiring explicit details about the sexual abuse. 

I suffered panic and anxiety attacks for more than a week after the depo. Day and night.  I had to bring back memories that I had since buried and thought I would never have to recount again to another human being. I felt so ashamed and guilty that I called my attorney back after the weekend. The look and the facial expressions on the court reporter said it all. I wanted to apologize to her for having to sit through and listen to my ordeal. That's no walk in the park for any of us. 

Potentially un-winding this plan to try to add more zeros behind a check isn't going to make what happened any more palatable or bring additional closure. We will live with these awful memories and the fallout for the rest of our lives. I voted "No" on the plan because I didn't like my sponsoring organization getting a free ride on the coattails of the BSA bankruptcy. But after 4 years in this bankruptcy and going through this much re-living of trauma, I want it over. My wife, kids and family want it over too. They have witnessed and experienced 1st hand the toll this taken on me. I dare say the same is true for the other survivors. 

The American Civil War lasted from 1861 - 1865. We are now exceeding that threshold. How much more blood needs to be spilled? Yes, the blood of those survivors who passed away due to age, health or their own hands. 

Edited October 28 by BadChannel70

[PaleRider]

This plan ain't gonna be shot down.

[PaleRider]

On 10/21/2024 at 6:09 AM, Muttsy said:

 

1. BSA NATIONAL LIQUIDATES and/ or

2. Insurance companies pony up a LOT more $$$ to liquidation trustee  

3 LC’s Liquidate and/or see 2 above

. 
4. Charter orgs voluntarily liquidate or file Ch 11. also See 2 above. 
 

4. Some survivors carry on with litigation including bad faith claims against insurance companies. 
 

5. More states open or reopen windows to allow more survivors a path to just compensation. See 2 above. 
 

6. Scouting becomes a verb again, not a brand name  Many regional and local scouting organizations form and compete with each other to develop the safest system, best and lower cost scouting experience not having to carry the corrupt dead weight of the bureaucracy. Scouting discovers its roots again.  

 

This plan won't be shot down.

[RememberSchiff]

Nov 6, 2024: US Court of Appeals for Third Circuit:  Judge Cheryl Ann Krause,  Judge Anthony J. Scirica, Judge Marjorie O. Rendell

Source (check for updates):

https://www2.ca3.uscourts.gov/OralArgSummariesLanding/CasesDetails.aspx?hrngDt=20241106

[Eagle1970]

So for you super educated legal eagles:  If the case at hand is dismissed, relative to the 3rd party releases and whatever else may be, can another Chapter 11 be filed?  Or does it force a liquidation?  Or any other possible paths?

[fred8033]

On 10/28/2024 at 10:46 AM, BadChannel70 said:

There are approximately 300 survivors, and I am one of them, who paid $10k-$20k, to the trust to have our claims settled through the IRO. That's $6,000,000.00 that needs to be refunded back to us if the plan is not confirmed. This doesn't even include the expense of obtaining an Expert Report required for the IRO. Probably a few million dollars more too. Then there is Discovery which isn't free either.

My apologies for the difficulty and pain of this process.  I am sure it's awful.

Question ... Would the $10k-$20k paid to the trust be refunded?  Seriously.  I am asking as I am thinking the cost is to pay extra expenses not covered by the trust.  Attorney bills.  Court reporters.  Coordination, processing, etc, etc.  If an attorney charged $300+ an hour and it took 6 hours for the deposition, I am thinking that cost was $2500 for the deposition at least.  

I am just curious if all the funds would be refunded or just the unspent portion of the funds.  

I trust the plan stays alive.  I also just want this done.  

[MYCVAStory]

On 11/3/2024 at 3:44 PM, Eagle1970 said:

So for you super educated legal eagles:  If the case at hand is dismissed, relative to the 3rd party releases and whatever else may be, can another Chapter 11 be filed?  Or does it force a liquidation?  Or any other possible paths?

Yes, another plan can be filed.  The bankruptcy portion of the profession is pivoting quickly in light of Purdue.  So, new plans are allowing claimants to "Not opt in" to a release and preserve their rights to sue a third-party.  Sound like a good idea?  Well, consider this.  If your attorney did NOT file a suit in State court against a Charter Org or Council, and the "window" has closed, you're screwed because the bankruptcy didn't "toll" your rights against any third party.  But let's say they did. Then you'd better hope you have a good attorney because most are NOT prepared to take dozens or hundreds or thousands of cases to trial in a timely manner.  Another issue is who you will be fighting, the insurers.  They are MASTERS at stalling so there's 3-5 years of your life.  One more reality, the third parties (charter orgs primarily) are NOT bottomless pits of money.  So, again, you'd better hope that your attorney is good and you're the first one they have in line before all their other clients.  If big judgements come in to the first group of Survivors that get to trial they could wipe out all the available funds, insurance included.  Then, the third party goes into bankruptcy, the insurance companies say "We've already paid out to the limits of our policies" and you're left fighting over scraps.  I hate to sound negative, but Scouting does not have to go into liquidation, they can refile a new plan and still allow Councils and other parties to participate.  You could then go it alone, but the risk could be greater and reward much less.  I know a lot of people will read this and say "I'm not getting anything now, I'll take my chances."  Of course.  I get that.  But reality must really be considered.  Going it alone could be years, with a potential dead-end if the party you sue goes into bankruptcy itself and you're back where you started, and if you get your day in court, how long will that be and what will be left to fight over?  The light at the end of the tunnel if this plan is overturned and Scouting does cast its Councils adrift, well, with all that's now known Councils in "good SOL States" will be motivated to pre-package a bankruptcy plan to get it over with quickly.  Its happened in Catholic Diocese cases.  But again, hovering over that are our good friends the Insurance attorneys.  To them, time is money and the longer they can prevent us all from getting it, the more they preserve their money and profits.    None of this is pretty.  It's a tragedy.  A very complicated tragedy that if this plan blows up you'd better have an attorney who can give you the right advice.

[Muttsy]

Very misleading. 

[RememberSchiff]

11/6/2024,

Alexandra Jones reporting from today's hearing:

https://www.courthousenews.com/sex-abuse-victims-fight-to-thwart-boy-scouts-2-4-billion-bankruptcy-payout-plan/

[MYCVAStory]

Here's a link to the audio file of today's hearing: https://www2.ca3.uscourts.gov/oralargument/audio/23-1664InReBoyScoutsofAmerica.mp3

[MYCVAStory]

I just finished listening to the 3Hr audio of the hearing.  The supporters had some really good attorneys.  The attorneys appealing this represented themselves....and you know that old saying about representing oneself and having a fool for a client.  But who knows.  I will say this.  The Judges did seem to be concerned about the Purdue issues but repeatedly came back to the impact this would have if it were undone.  But what was really striking was Evan Smola of Hurley Law who spoke toward the end, at the 2:27 mark.  He isn't my attorney but if he's yours you should be proud.  He put a VERY important human face on this and reminded the court that Survivors are dying.  His clients have left him with instructions that if they die they do NOT want family to know.  So, for them their claim died with them.  Thus far, his firm represents 5% of the total claims, and 250 of their clients have passed away.  If you do the math, that extrapolates out to 5,000 total deaths if his number is representative.  The story of all of this is yet to be told but the number of Survivors who never made it to the end must be known.  Thank you Mr. Smola.

[mrjohns2]

I assume a big difference is Perdue wasn’t 1.5 years into implementation, right? 

[Muttsy]

I was present. This court has grave reservations about the broader legal implications of affirming the plan. The judges were not receptive to plan proponents’ estoppel arguments. Ultimately the appeal is not about what happens to the BSA,  or the unfortunate victims. It is about removing the inherent corruption in the system. The collusion, conflicts of interest and unfairness of the settlement was not lost these judges. What happens to the plan or BSA is not its concern. The court calls balls and strikes. If BSA strikes out, it has only itself to blame. It knew, as did the TCC and all the lawyers, this house they were building rested on quicksand. The TCC and all the other lawyers either lied to their clients or didn’t both to understand what or why they were adding their clients to support the Plan. All of this was 100% foreseeable. Sad. 

[Muttsy]

3 minutes ago, mrjohns2 said:

I assume a big difference is Perdue wasn’t 1.5 years into implementation, right? 

But this plan has barely been implemented. Time was wasted but that is irrelevant. Most of the money hasn’t been transferred to the trust and only a tiny fraction 1.5% has been paid out. The test is “substantial consummation.” This is nowhere near that. 
The court can pinch its nose and rubber stamp it but that only invites an endless parade of other mass tort manipulations they have to deal with down the road. I watched these judges and have studied their past rulings. These cats aren’t rubber stampers.