Non BSA Scouting Program in the US

[WWBPD]

BW must be traveling today...I am sure he will be up to the task.

[fgoodwin]

chipmunk writes:This site has some stuff on "traditonal" scouting but I cannot tell if it is BSA or not.

 

http://www.inquiry.net/That's Rick Seymour's "Inquiry.net" website, and it is very good.

 

But I can assure you, he would never want anyone confusing his site with anything remotely related to B.S.A.

 

Fred Goodwin

 

[dan]

Okay I know I should not but I will play!

The rules I try to follow

Aims and Methods of the Scouting Program

The Scouting program has three specific objectives, commonly referred to as the "Aims of Scouting." They are character development, citizenship training, and personal fitness. The methods by which the aims are achieved are listed below in random order to emphasize the equal importance of each.Ideals The ideals of Boy Scouting are spelled out in the Scout Oath, the Scout Law, the Scout motto, and the Scout slogan. The Boy Scout measures himself against these ideals and continually tries to improve. The goals are high, and as he reaches for them, he has some control over what and who he becomes. Patrols The patrol method gives Boy Scouts an experience in group living and participating citizenship. It places responsibility on young shoulders and teaches boys how to accept it. The patrol method allows Scouts to interact in small groups where members can easily relate to each other. These small groups determine troop activities through elected representatives. Outdoor Programs Boy Scouting is designed to take place outdoors. It is in the outdoor setting that Scouts share responsibilities and learn to live with one another. In the outdoors the skills and activities practiced at troop meetings come alive with purpose. Being close to nature helps Boy Scouts gain an appreciation for the beauty of the world around us. The outdoors is the laboratory in which Boy Scouts learn ecology and practice conservation of nature's resources. Advancement Boy Scouting provides a series of surmountable obstacles and steps in overcoming them through the advancement method. The Boy Scout plans his advancement and progresses at his own pace as he meets each challenge. The Boy Scout is rewarded for each achievement, which helps him gain self-confidence. The steps in the advancement system help a Boy Scout grow in self-reliance and in the ability to help others. Associations With Adults Boys learn a great deal by watching how adults conduct themselves. Scout leaders can be positive role models for the members of the troop. In many cases a Scoutmaster who is willing to listen to boys, encourage them, and take a sincere interest in them can make a profound difference in their lives. Personal Growth As Boy Scouts plan their activities and progress toward their goals, they experience personal growth. The Good Turn concept is a major part of the personal growth method of Boy Scouting. Boys grow as they participate in community service projects and do Good Turns for others. Probably no device is as successful in developing a basis for personal growth as the daily Good Turn. The religious emblems program also is a large part of the personal growth method. Frequent personal conferences with his Scoutmaster help each Boy Scout to determine his growth toward Scouting's aims. Leadership Development The Boy Scout program encourages boys to learn and practice leadership skills. Every Boy Scout has the opportunity to participate in both shared and total leadership situations. Understanding the concepts of leadership helps a boy accept the leadership role of others and guides him toward the citizenship aim of Scouting. Uniform The uniform makes the Boy Scout troop visible as a force for good and creates a positive youth image in the community. Boy Scouting is an action program, and wearing the uniform is an action that shows each Boy Scout's commitment to the aims and purposes of Scouting. The uniform gives the Boy Scout identity in a world brotherhood of youth who believe in the same ideals. The uniform is practical attire for Boy Scout activities and provides a way for Boy Scouts to wear the badges that show what they have accomplished. Outdoor Activities Local councils operate and maintain Scout camps. The National Council operates high-adventure areas at Philmont Scout Ranch in New Mexico, the Northern Tier National High Adventure Program in Minnesota and Canada, and the Florida National High Adventure Sea Base in the Florida Keys. About 70 councils also operate high-adventure programs.

I do not pick and choice which ones to follow.

and these rules

http://www.scouting.org/nav/enter.jsp?s=xx&c=ds&terms=Guide+to+Safe+Scout&x=28&y=13

and the SM handbook and the Boy Scout Handbook(This message has been edited by dan)

[OldGreyEagle]

I knew I liked that Dan guy for a reason

[WWBPD]

Dan,

Its a start...but that is the Aims and Methods not the Rules and Regulations. I have seen thousands of post on this forum about the rules and regulations (as stated by the BSA and as made up by certain individuals)..and the application references them... so they must exist somewhere so that any reasonable person volunteering can read them before they sign the application.

 

No doubt, the SM Handbook and the Boy Scout Handbook contains some rules and regulations...please list them on your next post.

 

Then let me know what rules and regulations are in the hundreds of thousands of other pages of literature the BSA has produced...next post please.

 

Then call your Council and ask them for a copy of their Rules and Regulations, I am sure they will be very helpful...next post please.

 

Once we have them assembled, it would only be right to make them available to our next adult volunteer to read before he/she signs the application...that way they will have all the information they need to make an informed decision about volunteering.

 

As far as not picking and choosing which ones to follow...how can you know what you are following (or not following) when you can't even tell me what they are in the first place in one simple post of the Rules and Regulations of the BSA and your local council.

 

National has burdened us with so many Rules and Regulations we can't even list them, let alone follow them. How is that 'jolly and simple'.

 

B-P...we need you now more than ever.

 

 

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

But doesnt the BSA's Rules and Regulations just fit in with the times? The US Constitution has 4543 words (more or less, I never did trust a word processing program to count words) and the 2005 IRS tax code is purported to have over 10 million words. So how do as citizens know we are doing taxes corectly ? We must, we all sign we did.

[ML2]

It's kinda off-topic, but I sign my tax forms and consent to having the government take my money under threat of force and in fear of my life and my families welfare.

 

BTW, OGE, can I ask why you asked your original question concerning the other non-BSA organizations?

 

-ML

[dan]

WWBPD

What rules do you want to see? The council Website policy? I am sure that BP had a grand plans for the World Wide Web! Summer Camp? I can get all of these that I require, with a simple email.

The reason that the BSA has had to write all of these rules is because us adults could not follow the simple ones, like the AIMS and METHODS. Things like singing for lost items, pushups for punishments, hanging boys upside down to pin a badge on them. Turning BOR into retests. Failing SM conferences.

If you want to place blame about all the rules look in the mirror or at NJCubscouter. (sorry had to get the lawyer joke in there)

[WWBPD]

OGE,

 

Thank you for making my point. When the labyrinth of Rules and Regulations gets so large how can we know if we are following them all or not. In your analogy, we end up with multiple court systems (Constitution) to sort out the mess that is created, and we end up with an elaborate audit and penalty system (taxes) to catch the 'cheaters' or those who can't possibly understand all of the rules and nuances. A funny thing about Rules and Regulations, they are only added to...never detracted from. So after 94 years of the BSA's administrators and lawyers making their additions, we are left with a set of Rules and Regulations that are so voluminous that no one can point to a list of them (of course, BW has yet to be heard from). So now, we have aims, methods, rules and regulations...this is really getting confusing. Is a Method process a Rule and Regulation that I must abide by as a member of the BSA, or is it a mere suggestion? According to the Application, I must abide by the Rules and Regulations (it doesn't say Methods, unless of course there is a Rule or Regulation that says I must abide by all the Methods). I guess I need to hire my own lawyer to make sense of the requirements of my volunteerism in the BSA program.

 

We have gone so far beyond 'simple and jolly' it isn't even funny. Back to the basics...focus on the boy and make it exciting, fun and safe. It's the spirit of scouting that is important, not the rules and regulations.

 

 

 

[WWBPD]

Dan,

 

I merely want to see the Rules and Regulations of the BSA and local council that I am supposed to follow as a volunteer. I want to see ALL of them, a current listing, not one that is a year old. It should not be that difficult...if the BSA says you and I must follow them, then someone must have them in one place that I can look at. And I don't want a listing of the Methods...just the Rules and Regulations please.

[dan]

WWBPD

I see you are a ASM, the rules you need to follow are in the SM Handbook, Boy Scout Handbook, and the Guide to Safe Scouting.

What else do you need and why?

 

If you have questions about the rules ask your SM or Unit Commissioner.

 

If so many leaders would not have thought BP was talking about them having fun and not the scouts then the BSA would not have needed all these rules.

[WWBPD]

Dan,

 

Okay, I've got those books in front of me. Just those three, right? Not Climb on Safely booklet? Not Safe Swim Defense and Safety Afloat guides? Not Youth Protection guide? Just the SM Handbook, Boy Scout Handbook and Guide to Safe Scouting...got it. Not the Accessibility Standards for Camp Facilities publication? Not the Barrier-Free Tent Frame publication? Just those three.

 

Lots of words, now which are the rules, which are the regulations and which are the methods? I am only supposed to follow the Rules and Regulations according to my application agreement. The Methods may be good but I do not appear to be under any obligation to follow them as a result of signing the application.

 

Don't see anything in my handbooks on gays in scouting? Is that a rule?

 

I'll ask my SM, Unit Commissioner and Council for a list of the Rules and Regulations of the Boy Scouts of America and the local council. I'll see what they provide.

 

In the meantime, does anyone else have the list?

 

 

 

 

[fgoodwin]

It doesn't matter what anybody says, you'll come up with something else. So what's your point, WWBPD?

[WWBPD]

I am just trying to get the list of the BSA's Rules and Regulations. If they cannot be provided then either they do not exist, or someone is not sharing.

 

If you all are telling me that the rules and regulations of the BSA are imbedded in the millions pages of literature that the BSA produces about its Program, then I want to know why it has been made so difficult for someone that just wants to volunteer their time to help a boy.

[dan]

WWBPD

Not Climb on Safely booklet?

Not unless the scouts are going to climb over 6 feet, but someone had better be trained.

Not Safe Swim Defense and Safety Afloat guides?

Not unless you are going swimming or Afloating.

Not Youth Protection guide?

Nope not needed

Not the Accessibility Standards for Camp Facilities publication?

Not unless you are running a Scout Camp.

Not the Barrier-Free Tent Frame publication?

You made this one up didn't you? If not please provide more info. I enjoy learning new things.

 

I am only supposed to follow the Rules and Regulations according to my application agreement. The Methods may be good but I do not appear to be under any obligation to follow them as a result of signing the application.

You really need to set down with your SM, that is a really scary question, coming from a leader.

 

Don't see anything in my handbooks on gays in scouting?

As a ASM you do not have any say about membership in the BSA.

 

Why are the strict constructionist making it so difficult. B-P wants it to be jolly and simple.

If leaders would have a little common sense and not think that jolly and simple meant that they where to have a good time abusing scouts and making sure they where safe, the BSA would not have to spell out all of the rules.

 

So what do you want? The ability to change the program as you see fit? This is what has caused more and more rules. I really believe that you will see more and more rules, as long as leaders try to tweak the BSA program. So as you see all of these rules look in the mirror.

(This message has been edited by dan)