When are Patrol Yells given?

[Calion]

19 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

20 hours ago, Calion said:

Okay, these are good ideas, but when the patrols give their yells when forming up, just when and how do they do it? What does the SPL say to trigger these yells? Are they all done at the same time?

YES!  To all the above, and more!

Um…I don’t think you understood my question.

17 hours ago, SSScout said:

Sort of like this ?

 

Loved that show so much when I was a kid.

[Armymutt]

We didn't have patrol yells in my favorite troop as a kid - too small.  We had a troop yell.  Couldn't tell you the origin, but it was used as a means of communication - finding all the scouts and calling them together.  Or, in those days, for the Scouts to find the adults and get back together.  The phonetic of it is "Waa-poo".  Carries well through the woods and is unmistakable.  

[DuctTape]

20 hours ago, SSScout said:

Sort of like this ?

 

That was the 3rd best show on PBS.

#1 was 3-2-1 Contact

#2 was ZOOM!

[Calion]

On 4/18/2023 at 5:23 PM, InquisitiveScouter said:

On 4/18/2023 at 3:56 PM, Calion said:

Okay, these are good ideas, but when the patrols give their yells when forming up, just when and how do they do it? What does the SPL say to trigger these yells? Are they all done at the same time?

YES!  To all the above, and more!

 

How can the answer to “when and how does the SPL call for patrol yells?” be “YES!”?

[qwazse]

4 hours ago, Calion said:

How can the answer to “when and how does the SPL call for patrol yells?” be “YES!”?

I think @InquisitiveScouter is jokingly saying that it’s up to the SPL (with the guidance of the SM) to determine the “when” and “how.”
One size need not fit all.

[Calion]

16 hours ago, qwazse said:

I think @InquisitiveScouter is jokingly saying that it’s up to the SPL (with the guidance of the SM) to determine the “when” and “how.”
One size need not fit all.

Let’s go back to my original problem:

Quote

I have been trying to get the SPL to have the patrols give their patrol yells during opening ceremony, but he’s never yet done it, perhaps because he doesn’t know exactly when or how to have them do so. Well, I don’t either. 

 

[InquisitiveScouter]

Just now, Calion said:

Let’s go back to my original problem:

 

There is no prescribed "when or how."

That's why I said "Yes" to all your presented situations and all those of the other posters.

The original problem is actually only this:  Your patrols are not doing patrol yells.

Now, for your Scouts, that may not be an actual problem, because they could think it is goofy, stupid, and unnecessary.

But, I would argue, patrol yells are fundamental to the Patrol Method.

Does your SPL see the need for Patrol Yells?  If not, start there.

If your SPL agrees they should be done, then just challenge him to find a way to implement.

This is not really something for you to solve for them.

[Calion]

3 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

If your SPL agrees they should be done, then just challenge him to find a way to implement.

This is not really something for you to solve for them.

I see. So none of the experienced adults here have any idea how this can be done successfully, but we expect a 14-year-old to figure out how to do it on his own.

Shall we have Scouts figure out how to tie knots without instruction as well?

[InquisitiveScouter]

50 minutes ago, Calion said:

I see. So none of the experienced adults here have any idea how this can be done successfully, but we expect a 14-year-old to figure out how to do it on his own.

Shall we have Scouts figure out how to tie knots without instruction as well?

I'm not convinced you do see.

Here is the way for you to do this successfully:

1.  Convince the SPL (& PLC) of the need for Patrol Yells.  If you need to convince them, "appeal to the resource" like I did in my post above (copied here for you.)

------------------------

If they don't have a yell, then they are not a patrol.  It is part of the Patrol Method.

Scout Handbook, page 26:

"Patrols have yells, too.  If your patrol is named for an animal, you can use that animal's sound - the howl of a wolf, for example, or the hoot of an howl.  Or your patrol might decide on some other shout that identifies it.  Members can give the patrol yell whenever they do well in a troop competition or reach an important goal, and even when they're ready to chow down on a camp meal."

(Reading between the lines... not optional...)

Scout rank requirements:

3b. Become familiar with your patrol name, emblem, flag, and yell. Explain how these items create patrol spirit.

National Honor Patrol Award requirements:

1. Have a patrol name, flag, and yell. Put the patrol design on equipment and use the patrol yell. Keep patrol records up-to-date.

--------------------------

2.  Do not sign off another Scout rank until that Scout can tell you his Patrol Yell.  Tell the Patrol Leaders this.

3.  Set the example:  How about the adults come up with a Patrol Yell?  If you cannot be silly and try to establish some esprit de corps amongst the adults, then they aren't going to do it either.

4.  Make a game/competition of it!!  (Incentivize the behavior you want... aka, BRIBE THEM) At the beginning of the next meeting, offer an ice cream bar to the patrol with the best yell.  See what results you get.  If none of them take you up on it, have the adults do their yell, then eat the ice cream in front of them.  (If any patrol does a yell, the adults automatically lose!!!)

5.  The next time you have any event, ask for the patrol yell.  Tell them they cannot participate until they do their yell!  They will figure it out!!  Want to climb on the climbing tower?  The price of admission is your Patrol yell.  Want to swim?  The price of admission is your Patrol Yell.  Want to shoot at the Archery range?  The price of admission is your Patrol Yell.

6.  Explain what the National Honor Patrol Award is.  Ask if any patrol will take the challenge.  Part of the challenge is to do a Patrol Yell.  They will figure it out!

7.  Change your thinking... It is not a Troop made up of Patrols.  It is a bunch of Patrols that come together to form a Troop!!  The Patrol comes first!  Therefore, the Patrol Method comes first!  Patrol Yells are integral to building team team spirit (esprit de corps) in the Patrol!

8.  Tell them it is not a permanent thing!!! They can change their patrol yell any time they want!  Whatever they come up with initially, they are not stuck with!  It is theirs, and they can change it!

9.  Make sure they know that a patrol yell is expected of them!  At events like Camporees and Summer Camp, the staffs should be "enforcing" the Patrol Method.  (This is one way I know whether it is a good event/camp or not.

10.  Here are some examples of ours. (At the risk if identifying who we are 😜 )

 A.  Our oldest Scouts are in the Coyote Patrol (they chose the emblem long long ago) . Their yell (and the are usually the loudest) is a twist on the Arby's commercial:  "Coyotes! We eat the meats!"

B.  Next up, the Spartans (again, they chose their patrol name).  "This is SPARTA!!" while doing a big muscle flex.

C.  Then we have the Hawks.  the PL calls "Hawks, Assemble!" and they all get up in his face and yell "Caw!, caw!, caw!"  [Yes, I know that's what crows do... but I don't care!  It is theirs, and they LOVE it!!)

D.  Next is the Black Wolves.  "Black Wolves, Black Wolves, we howl at the MOON!"

E.  The Punk Rock Pineapples... (I'm still scratching my head on that, but it is theirs, and they LOVE it!!)  "Punk Rock Pineapples!  We rock on!"

F.  Finally, the Flaming Arrows: "Flaming Arrows, Flaming Arrows, we light the way!!"

Ultimately, this is EASY!  Don't get yourself into too many contortions over it.  Tell them the job that has to be done, and let them figure out a way to do it.  It is not for you to spoon feed them!!!

And oh, by the way... yes, you can figure out how to ties the knots yourself.  Please refer to your Scout Handbook, which also has a section on Patrol Yells.

Happy Scouting

[mrjohns2]

1 hour ago, Calion said:

I see. So none of the experienced adults here have any idea how this can be done successfully, but we expect a 14-year-old to figure out how to do it on his own.

I don’t think you do. Your response is very bizzar-o. This is a fun tool they the SPL can use. People have been kind and quoted original resources. An SM can share that with the SPL. The SPL can then choose what, if any, methods to use. If the SM thinks the SPL got it wrong, then they can talk. 
 

Patrol yells are super informal and very very minor. I don’t understand why you are putting them on such a high pedestal. 
 

I’m not getting what you are getting at. 

[MattR]

4 hours ago, Calion said:

I see. So none of the experienced adults here have any idea how this can be done successfully, but we expect a 14-year-old to figure out how to do it on his own.

Well, yes. The thing is this whole issue about patrol cheer is one of enthusiasm. One doesn’t teach enthusiasm by explaining it. One does enthusiasm. If your SPL is introverted, unsure of his or herself, and never seen enthusiasm in scouts before then nothing you talk about will change anything.

My suggestion is ask the SPL to watch you while you walk up to the troop and ask them what time it is ... which eventually leads to a really loud song. Once the SPL is comfortable doing that then ask him how each patrol can do their cheer instead of a song. I have no idea, do each patrol in turn or all at once. It's supposed to be loud and silly.

[Mrjeff]

Hmmmmmmm........the answer to your question is yes.  You do allow them to figure out the knots themselves.  Older kids who have know how to tie knots should be instructing younger or less experienced kids how to do things.  

[qwazse]

On 4/21/2023 at 3:34 PM, Calion said:

… Shall we have Scouts figure out how to tie knots without instruction as well?

For the record, I learned how to tie most of my knots from the handbook. (Or, later, the pioneering merit badge pamphlet.) Instruction serves the scouts who are having trouble on their own, and a troop may have many or few of those for any particular topic.

What does that mean? I won’t invest a lot of time on knot instructions if the scouts seem to get it. I might instead find times when a local pool is available for swimming instruction. I usually ask the PLC what they think is their members’ weakest scout skill, then I try to provide a program option that they could develop.

If I’ve gone over with the SPL all of my suggested for patrol years, and he is only having patrols give their yells at the start of some competition, I’m okay with that — as long as the patrols know their identity, look out for their members, and are each amassing time on other essential scout skills.

[SSScout]

Patrol Yells....

Ask them what the Team Coach wants from the Team...   Cohesiveness?  Esprit de Corps?  Sense of "BELONGING" ?  Same for the Scout Patrol...  

Attend Woodbadge...   Each Patrol has a name, and,,, guess what?  At Opening, a Yell/Cheer is expected.  The leadership roles may rotate, but hey,  it is Scouting. The kids grow up and move on...  That 12 year old will learn by watching the 14 year old who learns by watching what the now 18 year old did.  Your own kid will learn by watching YOUR example.  This is nothing new.....   Harry Chapin  recorded the result.  Go Google " Cat's in the Cradle"....  

At my last District Camporee, I led a US Flag Event (fold it up, answer some trivia ), and gave EXTRA CREDIT POINTS if they started off with their Patrol Cheer or yell (previously noted!)  , no surprise when many Patrols (not all ! ) came up and said "huh?" ... 

What else is there to lead to "Belonging to" a Scout Patrol?   I always marvel at the reasoning when a Troop re-assigns a Scout  from Patrol to Patrol, because of Age or Rank or Advancement, or....  The Scout needs to be in a Patrol, his/her  gang, to have fun with, make memories with, succeed in games and tasks with. How do you do that when you are in a different Patrol each year?   60 years ago (!!), I had some adopted Big Brothers I learned from, cooked bacon with, got dirty with. I still remember them with fondness (for the most part!).    Eagles screammmmm.  

All you adult leaders...   Get together with your SPL and her/his PLC....   Set the expectation,  make it fun for them....

[Calion]

On 4/23/2023 at 7:44 AM, SSScout said:

Each Patrol has a name, and,,, guess what?  At Opening, a Yell/Cheer is expected.

Cool! How is that done?