When are Patrol Yells given?

[Calion]

44 minutes ago, mrjohns2 said:

The patrol yell is covered with sufficient details in the Scout Handbook. It is also covered in the PL Handbook. It is also covered in the SPL Handbook. It is also covered in the Troop Leader Guidebook. 

Where? None of those resources even mention giving the yell in opening ceremonies, unless I’m missing something.

[mrjohns2]

2 minutes ago, Calion said:

Where? None of those resources even mention giving the yell in opening ceremonies, unless I’m missing something.

I don’t believe you have looked at all 4. 

[Calion]

1 hour ago, mrjohns2 said:

I don’t believe you have looked at all 4. 

You’re right; I missed “Troop Leader Guidebook” in that list. I’ve now searched for “yell” in all four, and none of them even mention giving the yell during opening ceremonies, except "Use the patrol yell to announce to the other patrols that your patrol is ready to go, is present during a troop assembly, or has done well during a patrol game.”.

Edited April 25, 2023 by Calion

[DuctTape]

4 hours ago, Calion said:

Could you point me to where this is discussed? My copy of the Patrol Leader’s Handbook says:

 

 

Pg 22 in my 1959 edition.

I find this version to be far superior to the newer ones b/c it provides actual "how-to-do" suggestions, instructions and examples. Most of your questions are actually answered in these old editions which demonstrates the inferiority of the current books.

[DuctTape]

42 minutes ago, Calion said:

You’re right; I missed “Troop Leader Guidebook” in that list. I’ve now searched for “yell” in all four, and none of them even mention giving the yell during opening ceremonies, except "Use the patrol yell to announce to the other patrols that your patrol is ready to go, is present during a troop assembly, or has done well during a patrol game.”.

An opening ceremony is an example of  "a troop assembly" .

[qwazse]

17 hours ago, Calion said:

…

“Scoutmaster, how do you tie a bowline knot?”

“By tying it."

The correct response is “have you asked your PL?”

Sometimes I say, “Can you use an index?” If not, I show them how to navigate their handbook.

With our crossovers, I do ask, “Can you read?” And make clear that I understand that some kids can’t and may need a buddy to help them.

It’s a big country. There’s no set way for an SPL to call for patrol yell. He may decides with the PLC how this should be done. Troops are allowed to have their own flow … their own way to communicate.

if you haven’t looked yet, give inquiry.net a browse. It has some pointers from older handbooks.

[Calion]

3 hours ago, qwazse said:

The correct response is “have you asked your PL?”

And when the one asking is the SPL?

Quote

Sometimes I say, “Can you use an index?” If not, I show them how to navigate their handbook.

And when the information isn’t in the Handbook?

Quote

It’s a big country. There’s no set way for an SPL to call for patrol yell.

And so, because it’s a big country, and there’s no set way, no one is allowed to tell me how their SPLs do it??

Quote

He may decides with the PLC how this should be done. Troops are allowed to have their own flow … their own way to communicate.

And if they have no idea, and ask me? Or just don’t do it because they don’t know how?

Quote

if you haven’t looked yet, give inquiry.net a browse. It has some pointers from older handbooks.

That’s a neat resource! I’d never heard of it before. Unfortunately, it doesn’t answer this question.

Edited April 26, 2023 by Calion

[Calion]

16 hours ago, DuctTape said:

An opening ceremony is an example of  "a troop assembly" .

Indeed! And just when do the patrols give their yells during this assembly? All at once? Spontaneously, when no one has told them to do so? While the SPL is giving the announcements?

16 hours ago, DuctTape said:

Pg 22 in my 1959 edition.

I find this version to be far superior to the newer ones b/c it provides actual "how-to-do" suggestions, instructions and examples. Most of your questions are actually answered in these old editions which demonstrates the inferiority of the current books.

But of course you’re not going to actually quote it for me, because that might be actually helpful.

[Calion]

19 hours ago, mrjohns2 said:

The patrol yell is covered with sufficient details in the Scout Handbook. It is also covered in the PL Handbook. It is also covered in the SPL Handbook. It is also covered in the Troop Leader Guidebook. 

Could you quote anywhere, in any of those books, where it is covered in sufficient detail? Such that someone could actually do it?

I’ll give an example. Say the SPL wants his troop to line up in formation by patrol, without saying a word. How would he do that? Would he just know, without being told, what a good, efficient way to do that would be? Do we expect SPLs to figure out these things? No, we direct them to resources like https://troopresources.scouting.org/silent-scout-signals/, which describes, in detail, actually how to perform the action in question. If I’ve missed such a description in all of those books you list, I am apparently incredibly incompetent, so your help would be appreciated to point it out to me.

Edited April 26, 2023 by Calion

[Mrjeff]

Oh my heavens,  sometimes its necessary to look into your own imagination and turn to your own ideas and close the books.  This yelling and cheering and patrol flags and names and ribbons are all simple tools to have fun.  Its just that simple, introduce the concept and stand back and watch.  If you really need a book, I would look back, way back, at some vintage scouting literature.  

[InquisitiveScouter]

23 hours ago, Calion said:

I’m sorry, what’s trolling?

LOL, even that question is trolling 😜

For the benefit of those you have successfully trolled:

Trolling

The art of deliberately, cleverly, and secretly p&&&ing people off, usually via the internet, using dialogue. Trolling does not mean just making rude remarks: Shouting swear words at someone doesn't count as trolling; it's just flaming, and isn't funny. Spam isn't trolling either; it p&&&es people off, but it's lame.

The most essential part of trolling is convincing your victim that either a) truly believe in what you are saying, no matter how outrageous, or b) give your victim malicious instructions, under the guise of help.
Trolling requires decieving; any trolling that doesn't involve decieving someone isn't trolling at all; it's just stupid. As such, your victim must not know that you are trolling; if he does, you are an unsuccessful troll.

[qwazse]

8 hours ago, Calion said:

Could you quote anywhere, in any of those books, where it is covered in sufficient detail? Such that someone could actually do it?
...

Yes.

• https://troopresources.scouting.org/team-building-activities/ in reading to the troop the instructions for "Hi-Lo", the SPL specifies when patrols should give their yell.
• https://troopresources.scouting.org/knot-tying-skill-activities/  in reading to the troop the instructions for "Taut-Line Hitch Race"

This is sufficient detail without making the SPL feel obliged to fit it into every possible game or activity.

Beyond that, the SPL can and should confer with the PLC as to when and how they should be directed to do their yells. You note the page on "silent commands". That is not intended to be an exhaustive list. The PLC could decide on a signal for each patrol to give their yell.

[Calion]

On 4/26/2023 at 1:27 PM, Mrjeff said:

Oh my heavens,  sometimes its necessary to look into your own imagination and turn to your own ideas and close the books.

Obviously that wasn’t sufficient, or I wouldn’t have wasted my time posting. How do your Scouts do it?

On 4/26/2023 at 1:27 PM, Mrjeff said:

This yelling and cheering and patrol flags and names and ribbons are all simple tools to have fun. 

Well, no. If that was the case, they wouldn’t be required. They’re to build esprit de corps, and are an important part of the Scouting program.

On 4/26/2023 at 1:27 PM, Mrjeff said:

Its just that simple, introduce the concept and stand back and watch

I did that. As I said from the beginning, I introduced the concept, stood back and watched absolutely nothing happen. Which is why I asked a question here. Why is that such a difficult concept? Why am I being denigrated for asking a simple question that everyone here already knows the answer to?? I mean, obviously, your Scouts are already doing this, or you wouldn’t be berating me for not already knowing the answer to this question I don’t know the answer to. So you are withholding the answer for some perverse reason—to teach me a lesson? Why?

On 4/26/2023 at 2:18 PM, InquisitiveScouter said:

LOL, even that question is trolling 😜

I meant “What that I said is trolling?” Which was, I think, obvious in context, making this trolling.

Edited April 27, 2023 by Calion

[Calion]

18 hours ago, qwazse said:

Yes.

• https://troopresources.scouting.org/team-building-activities/ in reading to the troop the instructions for "Hi-Lo", the SPL specifies when patrols should give their yell.
• https://troopresources.scouting.org/knot-tying-skill-activities/  in reading to the troop the instructions for "Taut-Line Hitch Race"

Well, no, neither of those answer the question, which specifies "during opening ceremony." 

Quote

You note the page on "silent commands". That is not intended to be an exhaustive list. The PLC could decide on a signal for each patrol to give their yell.

I agree! That’s a neat idea! Do you have any suggestions? What works for your troop?

[Mrjeff]

I haven't criticized,  berated,  talked down or otherwise berated you.  I have provided you with suggestions that clearly outline methods to integrate patrol yells, cheers or calls.  I have answered your question but you choose to overlook the suggestions and repeat the question over and over.  If you need any clarification feel free to ask, otherwise my only other suggestion would be to just figure it out.  I won't continue to participate in or fo)low this circular conversation any longer.  Best wishes and good luck in your scouting endeavors.