Troopmaster or TroopWebHost

[cmd]

The platform hosting our pack & troops websites has died and we've been instructed to look at either TroopWebHost or TroopMaster.  Has anyone recently looked at these and chosen one over the other?  What were things that helped make that decision?

So far, it looks like TroopWebHost is the only one that has any functionality specific to linked troops. An ability to share some calendar info between units would be a huge plus.

I think both have ways to subscribe to the calendar, but not clear if that can be filtered by den/patrol etc.

We mostly used our website for: 

Calendar (including registration)

Roster

Weekly automated email

File storage

Brief welcome page for interested non-scouts

Contact form to reach us

We don't really use any of the advancement tracking or financial pieces, but might be interested in those if they were easy to integrate

Any recommendations for us?

[mrjohns2]

7 hours ago, cmd said:

An ability to share some calendar info between units would be a huge plus.

This is possible with a Scoutbook. It doesn’t have the website hosting. We do that at GoDaddy. 

[cmd]

How do you share calendar info through scoutbook? The last time I looked at the calendar in scoutbook, everyone was recommending NOT using it because it was the least functional part of scoutbook.  It's better now? 

I considered recommending we switch to just Scoutbook, but with group emails through that not reaching everyone for the last few months, that's a deal breaker.  

And between scoutbook emails breaking and our whole website dying, I'm feeling like having redundant systems is a good thing. 

 

[eagle90]

Before the advent of Scoutbook our troop used Troopmaster for many years and was extremely pleased with the data, the ease of operation, and the support available.  Now we sometimes rue the day Scoutbook came into being.

[mrjohns2]

2 hours ago, cmd said:

How do you share calendar info through scoutbook?

You have to be an admin in both units and select both units with a check. We do that for joint pack, boy troop, and girl troop activities. It isn’t perfect, but not bad. 
 

The email thing will be sorted out. 

[cmd]

1 hour ago, mrjohns2 said:

The email thing will be sorted out. 

What are you using in the meantime to communicate with Scouts and families? 

[InquisitiveScouter]

Email seems to be back up fine... at least for us.

As far as the calendaring goes, you can email the entire group with notices from a specific event.

One thing to address is culture.  Most people want you to "Push versus Pull".

This means most people wait around waiting for you to send them a message about stuff.  They are waiting for you to "Push" to them.  (Of course, when you do, a few do not respond and claim they didn't get the message.)

We teach our Scouts that real leaders "Pull."  They go out and get the information they need to make decisions.  The easy way to do this?  Log in to Scoutbook yourself and check out the events in the calendar for yourself.  Then RSVP Yes or No.  "Maybe" is not an acceptable response after the RSVP deadline. (Our rule is that, when RSVP closes, your "Maybe" becomes an automatic "No".)

Better yet, subscribe to the Scoutbook calendar in your preferred calendar app.  Then, events for the unit automatically populate in your day-to-day calendar and you can check them out.  (If you have too much calendar clutter, then just toggle if off for a while.)

We have gotten good results, but some basic human behaviors always seem to rear their heads... For example, the 20-60-20 rule (which applies to lots of things.)  

Say you have 10 Scouts, well 2 of them are going to be AWESOME.  These are the Scouts I invest my time in without reservation.  They will be Eagle Scouts.  They are going to be movers and shakers.

Of the 10, 6 Scouts will be AVERAGE performers.  They will do fine with the program, have a great time, and most will make it to Life or Eagle.  Time spent with them is well used, but must be done according to your "bandwidth," or mentorship must sometimes be delegated to another, but you must see to it that it is.

Of the 10, 2 Scouts will not do well.  They sporadically attend meetings or events; they do not take advantage of the advancement opportunities provided; they do not communicate well; they do not "get with the program."  I do not spend time pursuing these Scouts.  If they come to me, I will work with them.  But I am not going to spend time going after them to get them to participate.

"All models are wrong, but some are useful."  I have found this one useful.  But, of course, sometimes it is wrong, and I adjust.

This model applies to parents as well... amazingly enough, there is a high correlation to the behavior of their Scouts. 😜 

Edited April 2, 2023 by InquisitiveScouter

[InquisitiveScouter]

So, just had this convo with another leader asking kinda the same.  Here was my "edited" response...

Questions:

  I wanted to reach out to you regarding comparison & recommendation between Scoutbook and Troopmaster (& any other like products). 

  P-XXX had Scoutbook.  I don't know Troopmaster.  

 

Initially

- What products does yours & other Troops in our area use & why?  

- Is there much of a cost difference - multi-year di$count?  

- Is one "Better" than the other?

- What's their guarantee for data protection?  

- Any other good questions I should have asked?

----------------------------

Response:

It has been six years since we used Troopmaster.  So, my experience with it is dated.  Anecdotally, people I know that are already "fully vested" in it, love it, and do not intend to change.  Mostly, I believe, that is just resistance to change...

 

- We use Scoutbook because it is free, automatically populates with data from Scouting records and rosters, tracks individual Scout and Leader Accounts for money exchange, is BSA proprietary, and has very functional add-ons which the original programmer makes while waiting for BSA to adopt upgrades..  We do not have to do any data transfer between systems.  There were growing pains in moving to Scoutbook, and people must take time to learn its features, but I think you will encounter the same with any product.  Scoutbook is best used in Chrome.

 

- Yes, Scoutbook is free.  All others are paid subscriptions (yet another thing to pay and manage)  I believe most platforms will offer a multi-year licensing discount.

 

- Where you stand depends on where you sit.  Everyone LOVES the product they are currently using, and thinks it is the BEST.

 

- None that I know of.  I have seen egregious examples of people posting all kinds of privacy data from different Scouting trackers.  End-users are usually the most frequent offenders, due to bad data hygiene, but those offenses would be limited to small exposures. The only consolation is that, if big data leaks from BSA, it's on them...  good luck with any company if there are damages to be dealt with.

 

All good questions.  Here are the cons of Scoutbook:

 

- No unit data storage for files, pictures, etc.  We use several Google accounts for the Troop to manage this:  troopxxmembership, troopxxwebmaster, etc.

- No unit website capabilities.  If you want a unit website, you have to find a Domain name subscription, and then a website host.  We use GoDaddy for name support, and Weebly to host the website.  I am not saavy enough to know if there is a better solution to this.

- No task-oriented signup capability (like bringing different dishes to the Troop picnic); we use Sign-up genius for that, but usually only once or twice per year.  You could use Scoutbook, but it would be a lot more hands on management...

- Rudimentary Reports capability... I can find out how many Scouts have Canoeing merit badge, but I cannot create a report showing multiple info queries into advancement, training, swim checks, etc.  We have to pull and collate all that data ourselves, when needed.  So, we use a lot of spreadsheets on Google Drive to track an Adult Training Dashboard, or a Summer Camp Tasks List,  or some such things.

 

 

 

 

[cmd]

Thanks.  Is there any way in Scoutbook to add a person who isn't registered? I understand that this thing I consider an important feature is also a potential security concern, but we use that for things like our recruiting chairs to suggest suitable weekends for events the scouts want to invite cubs to.  And the Cubmaster can peek at what the scouts have going on that they maybe didn't realize the Webelos would really love an invite to and see if they can get one.  

We also often have an absurdly long lag time before a new scout is added to scoutbook.  Making them register online is probably the "right" answer to that, but it seems like once parents realize it can be done online they say they'll do it when they get home and don't.

Can scoutbook rsvp include guests?  

We definitely have a large Push vs Pull problem, but a lot of the emails we need to send out are things like changes of plans or cancelations or events that are in danger of being canceled if we can't get more leaders. People aren't going to "pull" for updates when they think they already know the plan. 

The large number of events that get moved or canceled is a different problem...

 

 

[mrjohns2]

They get added to Scoutbook 24-36 hours after they are registered. 
 

No RSVPs other than for registered adults, parents, or a Scouts.  
 

No access beyond your own children if you aren’t registered. 

[InquisitiveScouter]

We have a calendar on our Troop website.  That calendar is public, and subscribes to the Troop calendar.

You can see events there, but you cannot open an event without a Scoutbook log in.

We encourage Packs to look at that calendar to see what events they may like to attend.  Then they contact us to make arrangements.

No, you cannot have anyone other than Scouters/Parents/Scouts with Scoutbook accounts, but you can send event notices to guests. (Although I have not used this feature to test capability.)

We do not send out changes.  We send up to three event notices, along with our planning timelines.  One at three months out,  one month prior to event, and one week prior to RSVP close.  After RSVP close, one final notice goes out on Wednesday or Thursday with final instructions.

Scoutbook calendar features allow you to send notices to only those who have RSVPed Yes, No, or Maybe.  For our culture, once you RSVP No, you never get another notice about that trip.  Once you RSVP Yes, you only get the Final Instructions notice just prior to the trip.  The Maybes get all notices, except Final Instructions.

Edited April 2, 2023 by InquisitiveScouter

[Eagle1993]

I would put in a recommendation for TroopTrack.

We recently looked at switching and decided against Scoutbook as only registered members can be in our Troop.  We typically add in potential new scouts (AOL 1 year before cross over) and keep a large alumni group updated on an ongoing basis.  Since Scoutbook doesn't enable these features, we stayed with TroopTrack.

TroopTrack works well for us; however, the performance isn't quite up to where it was in the past (which is why we started looking at Scoutbook).  

[Cleveland Rocks]

One of the things we really liked about SOAR was that it allowed us to have our website with our own URL, and we could have any number of emails tied to that domain name.  We also like the ability to keep lists of our alumni and families, as we regularly communicate with them, something Scoutbook does not allow.

Does anyone know if TroopWebHost or Troopmaster allows either of those things? I've reached out to them both, but with it being the weekend when all this transpired, obviously no one is going to answer until Monday at the earliest.

[cmd]

26 minutes ago, Cleveland Rocks said:

We also like the ability to keep lists of our alumni and families, as we regularly communicate with them, something Scoutbook does not allow.

That was the one thing I noticed on the TroopMaster site that seemed appealing.  Their term for that is Point of Contact, but I haven't looked any farther to see how it works.  I haven't been able to find whether TroopWebHost or TroopTrack have something similar.  

[cmd]

59 minutes ago, Cleveland Rocks said:

One of the things we really liked about SOAR was that it allowed us to have our website with our own URL, and we could have any number of emails tied to that domain name. 

By this, do you mean having email addresses @troopX.org instead of @yourtroop.mytroop.us?  I hadn't thought about that before, but it IS so much easier to send an email to our troop with their vanity email address than to our pack that let that lapse and another unit scooped it up.  I didn't realize that was being done through SOAR, but looks like the troop committee email address uses the vanity domain, so I guess it probably is.  
Please let me know what you find out about whether other options support that.   On the TroopTrack forum there's a post complaining that they don't have that, but I think it was from 2017.